August 2, 1994 - Part 8
August 2, 1994 - Part 8
(19:05:47) We have here two versions of Ms. Hanson's recollections. One of them is her own from her own computer where she made questions a and answers to herself, and that was done on March 4 in anticipa- tion, I assume, of perhaps being called back before this Committee because the Ranking Member and the Chairman were not pleased with the way the testimony went. And in that she writes in her own words "who in the Treasury or the RTC knew that you had this conversation?" That is the conversation she had with Nussbaum. She said "I don't recall that I told anyone of this conversation." Question: Did you tell Mr. Altman? Answer: No. Quesiton: Did anyone ask you to have this conversation? Answer: No. Question: Did you have any further conversations with anybody from the White House? She goes on, but in this version of her memory of March 4 she says clearly, without an question, she never told you about this. Now comes July 11, she's talking to the ethics people. She says, "Did Mr. Altman advise you to do that, meaning talk to Mr. Nussbaum?" She says, "I don't recall exactly how the conversation developed, but it was clear to me I bad the responsibility of notifying Mr. Nussbaum that these referrals were likely to be leaked and I believe Mr. Altman asked me to do it." And the questioner says, "your best recollection is Mr. Altman asked you to contact Mr. Nussbaum?" She said "I believe so." I think in this situation, your credibility rises a little bit. Here she says you believe you told her. Here she says in her own writing, without equivocation, no, I never told anyone, no one knew about it. And specifically asked about you, she says no. So the situation to me is very confusing. Now, do you have any explanation, because I have a problem with Ms. Hanson's testimony, I'll be honest with you. I guess my first question is, can you possibly reconcile these two different stories? Mr. ALTMAN. No, Senator, I can't. But if I can say, the part of this whole hearing that's most important to me is the issue of my testimony before the Committee. Senator BOXER. Well, I haven't gotten to that yet. I'm going to ask you about that, but I want to get to the basis of this. you explain to me why she would put in her own personal computer when there wasn't any investigation that she never talked to you and then later on in the investigation she said she got her orders from you? Can you explain that in any way? Mr. ALTMAN. No, I can't, but what made the biggest impression on me was that I talked to Senator Riegle the day 1 learned of the 473 meetings and informed him of that also, talked to Senator Bond, and I prepared a letter to Senator Riegle. The letter says I just learned of these meetings. Senator BOXER. Sorry? Mr. ALTMAN. The letter says I Just learned of these meetings and a number of people looked at it including Ms. Hanson and she signed off on it. Senator BOXER. I understand that. Let me go further. I want to understand your management style Vis-a-vis your official capacity over Ms. Hanson's activities. This is a woman who is General Counsel. I consider that to be a pretty powerful position. Did you supervise her activities every single day? Mr. ALTMAN. No, Senator. Senator BOXER. Did you have anything in writing in terms of a manual, because in our office we have a manual where we lay out who people report to and what they can and cannot do without getting specific authority. Did 0 have any such manual or an agreement with her that she would have to, for example, when she spoke to another attorney, be it the White House or any other agency, she had to ask you? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, if I may just put it in a moment's perspective. No one in the Treasury except 3 people, my secretaries and special assistant, no one in the Treasury reports directly to me. If you look at the organizational chart, everyone reports to the Secretary of the Treasury, and my job is essentially defined as an alter ego job. So Ms. Hanson did not report directly to me, nor does anybody else. Senator BOXER. So she had no instruction from you that she could never go to the White House, unless you told her to do it; is that correct? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, and I think Mr. Nussbaum testified that he had lots of conversations with Ms. Hanson. They were in regular interaction.