August 2, 1994 - Part 8
August 2, 1994 - Part 8
(18:55:17) Senator BRYAN. Mr. Altman, the testimony that we've had before us is that it's fair to say everyone who has testified in response to any aspect of that question has indicated that in their opinion that would be Ms. Hanson, Ms. Kulka, Mr. Nye, Mr. Steiner and others all indicated that in their opinion you ought to recuse yourself. Now I believe that there is a different standard that is whether one is legally obligated to recuse oneself and I understand that the 469 answer to that, from a legal point of view, is that you were advised that you were not. But in light of the overwhelming evidence that we have before us that virtually everyone-and I want to give you an opportunity to explore with us your thought process-tbought that you ought to recuse yourself not because you were legally obli- gated to, but because of your relationship with the President and what we deal with in public life every day of our lives, "the appearance of impropriety." Share with us what your thought process was. Mr. ALTMAN. First of all, Senator Bryan, I did recuse myself. Senator BRYAN. That was on the 25th after a period of vacillation, it would appear to me. Mr. ALTMAN. I understand but 3 weeks passed between first initially thinking about it and recusing myself As you know, no decision came to me for-nothing came to me for decision. Senator BRYAN. And I understand that. Mr. ALTMAN. And also I think I should have recused myself originally. I should have done that. Senator BRYAN. I think everybody here would acknowledge that, but I'm not trying to suggest that any wrongdoing occurred on your part. I'm just trying to understand-first, let me ask you more specifically', is it a fact that everyone with whom you consulted on the question of recusal during that time frame advised you that in his or her opinion you ought to recuse yourself? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, I believe that's true, but I think it's important to put that advice in context. The advice that meant the most to me was Secretary Bentsen's advice, and he said it's a purely personal decision, but I would do it because it's in your self-interest. Senator BRYAN. So he advised you as well with the caveat that ultimately it's your decision. Mr. ALTMAN. He said, and I don't mean verbatim, but essentially Senator BRYAN. No, I understand. Mr. ALTMAN. He said it's entire] a personal decision, he was aware that it wasn't required, but I would do it if I were you because it's in your self-interest. That's the essence of what be said. And so the answer to your question is yes. Senator BRYAN. And we have testimony in the record that as you were going to this meeting on February 2, the first of two meetings that occurred back to back, that indeed, people who had talked with you prior to that meeting were of the opinion that you were going to, in effect, inform the White House that you were going to recuse yourself. Was that your state of mind at that time? Mr. Altman. As you know, when I called Mr. McLarty and set I said the purpose of the meeting Senator BRYAN. The February 2 meeting? Mr. ALTMAN. Right. I called him the day before, I think. I said the purpose of the meeting I to talk about these generic RTC procedures, and when I called him I didn't intend to go over and raise ,recusal, but I did raise recusal and-, but I think I did the right nothing in this sense: Before I went there I bad told the RTC General Counsel, Ms. Kulka, who has confirmed this, that she would be making the decisions on the statute of limitations issues involving 470 Madison, and I told her more than once and there were people who were there when I did. Then when I went to the White House, I made as strong a point as I could have of saying. the same thing to them. I won't be making any decisions on Madison, Ms. Kulka will be making them, and I repeated it at another point at the end of the meeting. Senator BRYAN. I think we're drifting, Mr. Altman, I don't mean to be rude, but here again, I must say in terms of your responsiveness to the questions, I am not suggesting or leading in the direction that you did anything wrong during that-I'm trying to understand your thought process. My question was what was your state of mind when you came to that meeting on the 2nd because there is testimony in the record that you were about to recuse yourself and, indeed, there were talking points that were prepared for you in which recusal was one of the issues. Mr. ALTMAN. When I got to the meeting or at some point in the meeting, I said I've been advised to recuse myself and I intend to take that advice. I didn't say when. Senator BRYAN. You said that at the meeting itself? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, sir. Senator BRYAN. OK When did you have a change of heart after that? Mr. ALTMAN. I thought about it some more, and I went back and told the folks at the White House that I wasn't going to recuse myself for the time being.