August 2, 1994 - Part 7
August 2, 1994 - Part 7
(19:50:12) Mr. ALTMAN. Sure. I did receive a call, Senator, on February 25 in the afternoon, I'm not sure what time. Let me give you the background. That morning, yes, I decided to recuse myself I had several conversations with the public affairs people, including With Mr. DeVore down in Texas as to the right way to release it. Should we have a press release? Should we call in a reporter? Should we call in a few reporters? How should we do that? When I received the call from Mr. Raines, I had decided to recuse myself but I hadn't released it and I said to Mr. Raines, I'm recusing myself, that's true. It was not during the phone conversation I made that decision. I made it earlier, but in any event, I then received a phone call, perhaps sometime later and after my recusal decision had been released and was in the bands of the press, after that, and Mr. Stephanopoulos and Mr. Ickes were on the phone. The CHAIRMAN. They called you directly? 463 Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, sir. senator GRAMM. You called-both of them on the phone? Mr. ALTMAN. They were on the phone together, yes, Senator. And they said-well, they were angry, the two of them were angry, that they hadn't had any prior notification of my decision to recuse myself. The CHAIRMAN. What did they say to you? Mr. ALTMAN. I'm not sure of the exact words but something to the effect-and it was said with anger-why didn't you tell us you were going to do this? And I simply said I made this decision, and I released it. In retrospect, they probably had a good 0' point. I probably should have let them know out of courtesy be re I let the press know. I probably should have. The CHAIRMAN, How long did the conversation last? Mr. ALTMAN. Just a few minutes. The CHAIRMAN. A few minutes would be 2 minutes, 5 minutes, 7 minutes. Mr. ALTMAN. I would say 5 or 6 or 7 minutes. And I think they said that the President was upset also with the manner of the recusal. Then they asked me about Jay Stephens The CHAIRMAN. When you say you think they said it that's the kind of thing you probably wouldn' t forget. I mean, did they say that? Mr. ALTMAN. I believe they said that. Then they asked me about Jay Stephens, and I had never heard of Jay Stephens. And I literally said something to the effect of who's he and they told me be was a former U.S. Attorney, I think, an avowed political enemy of the President. I never heard of Mr. Stephens, and they said the RTC had retained him as Outside Counsel, and I said well, selection of Outside Counsel decisions are never brought to me. Never once in my whole RTC tenure did I ever get asked to approve an Outside Counsel's selection and I sure wasn't asked on that one. So those aren't brought to me. And then I said if he's been hired, he's been hired. That's it. At that point, Mr. Stephanopoulos suggested that I write a letter to the President explaining why I had released this recusal decision the way I did, and I said I would and a few days later I did, and you have a copy of that letter. The CHAIRMAN, Senator Bennett, I thought we should get a clarification on that. Senator BENNETT. Yes, I appreciate that. The CHAIRMAN. I didn't mean to take your time. Senator BENNETT. My time is gone. I have some other questions. I Will stick around for a second round. The CHAIRMAN. Senator D'Amato has asked to just raise one Point here. Senator D'AMATO. Mr. Chairman, the reason is because I think now I'm going to ask Mr. Altman. Mr. Altman, is it safe to assume now that you concede that there was a meeting following the February 2 meeting that took place at the White House that you called, whether you called-your memory is Mr. Ickes, that you went over there and that you met with Mr. Ickes to tell him about our decision not to recuse yourself Have we established that now? 464 Mr. ALTMAN. I called Mr. Ickes. We were going to a meeting together. I said I'd like to talk to you for a moment or two before the meeting, I did. And I said I'm not going to recuse myself for the time being. Senator D'AMATO. Did you call Ms, Hanson and beep her at lunch and she then followed you, you say get to the Treasury and she said she came to the Treasury, she missed you there, and they said go on over to the White House and she went over to the White House? That took place? Mr. ALTMAN. I asked that Ms. Hanson attend. Senator DAMATO. OK So that substantiates there was this, this getting together. Now, you wanted to tell. somebody of your decision. Is that a fair and accurate statement? I mean, that's what Maggie Williams says. Senator BOXER. Could I make a point of information? Where are we on time? I'm very confused. The CHAIRMAN. Where we are Senator BOXER. It's now 8 p.m. and some of us have never had a first round. I appreciate your concern, but we have 5 votes here Senator D'AMATO. I'm going to wrap it up in a minute if I can Senator BOXER. Whose time are you speaking on? Senator DAMATO. My own time.