August 2, 1994 - Part 7
August 2, 1994 - Part 7
(19:15:50) That call takes place--Ms. Hanson believes that you have tasked her to go to the White House. At her meeting at the White House she informs the White House of the referrals. She comes back and writes a memorandum to you that in essence says, I've done that, is there anything more we can do. There's also a meeting on October 6 with another person saying that you had I knowledge of these things. He informs you about a pre leak and you call Ms. Hanson, get her on the phone, and say, call Jack, Bernie, and the Secretary. So all I'm saying is that this really calls into question how I can believe the point you're making as opposed to these other two individuals. Mr. ALTMAN. First of all, Senator, this memo we've been discussing, at least in my view, does not confirm that Ms. Hanson went to the White House and talked about criminal referrals in September. It doesn't have anything to do with that. That's what you just said, Senator. You said it confirmed it. Second of all, Senator-if I may say, none of the participants in this second meeting, the October meeting, and you said this was an October reference. Senator MACK. October 6 in your office. Mr. ALTMAN. None of the participants in the second meeting have said they bad their meeting at the White House, I believe it was October 14, at my request. Not one person has said that. Senator MACK. All I'm trying to establish is that there's another person out there that says that you're more involved in this than you are admitting to. I mean, we have Jean Hanson, she went on at quite some length explaining the situation. Now, you have said that she, in essence, doesn't now what she's talking about; in other words, she's kind of freelancing. But there's another conversation that takes place on October 6, at which point you have gotten information from Mr. Roelle, you then pick up the phone and call Ms. Hanson, and you say to her, call Jack, Bernie, and the Secretary. Do you not recall that. Mr. ALTMAN. First of all, Senator Mack Senator MACK. Do you recall that? Mr. ALTMAN. -The questions that I was asked earlier in regard to this differing recollection with Ms. Hanson, my answer was and my answer is I don't recollect that. I think if I tasked her to do it, I would have remembered it. 453 Senator MACK. Remember, we're now talking about the October 6 meeting. This is a separate meeting. This has nothing to do with the issue of tasking. I'm just asking you the question, Mr. Altman. Do you Mr. ALTMAN. I don't recollect that. Senator MACK. You do not remember that? Mr. ALTMAN. I do not recollect that, no. Senator MACK. At this point we have two people, Ms. Hanson and Mr. Roelle, that have testified under oath that they know of your involvements in these things and you say that you haven't. At that point, I'll just let it go. Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, I believe they have testified that they made me aware of an impending press leak. Senator MACK. Mr. Altman, I asked you the question, do you recall this incident in your office where you picked up the phone and called Ms. Hanson? Mr. ALTMAN. No, Senator, I don't. Senator MACK. To speak to Jack, Bernie, and the Secretary? Mr. ALTMAN. I don't recall that. Senator SARBANES. Senator Mack, you still have some time. Senator DAMATO. Yield to Senator Gramm? Senator MACK, Certainly, If be wishes to, I'd be glad to. Senator GRAMM. I appreciate Senator Mack yielding. Let me go back, Mr. Nussbaum, to this Steiney diary very briefly. He writes in his diary that you bad orginally decided to recuse yourself but under intense pressure from the White House, you bad decided to delay a final decision. And then he says that at a fateful White House meeting, which we know is the February 2 meeting with Nussbaum, Ickes, and Williams, however, the White House told Roger Altman that his recusal was unacceptable. IWe have a deposition from Maggie Williams about the February 3 meeting, the meeting which was apparent] too unimportant to disclose to this Committee, and here's what she says: "Well, Roger called me and be said to me, I have decided not to recuse and I want to tell some people-I wanted to tell some people in the White House that and then he said I'm on my way to this meeting, but I would like to get a few people together and tell them, and I thought OK And he said, could you grab a few people or call a few people, le, and I said OK" Now, who is this Maggie Williams? Mr. ALTMAN. Margaret Williams is the First Lady's Chief of Staff. Senator GRAMM. You called the Chief of Staff of the First Lady of the United States to ask her to get a few people together at the White House so you could tell them you weren't going to recuse Yourself. Why?