August 2, 1994 - Part 7
August 2, 1994 - Part 7
(19:05:41) Why, assuming he had no reason to lie on his impression and he put this, why did you, Deputy Secretary of Treasury confirmed by the Senate, acting CEO of the Resolution Trust Corporation, if this is correct, why would you let Nussbaum, Ickes, and Williams beat up on you or back you down in any way and cause you not to recuse yourself when it seemed to be imminent? Why, Mr. Altman? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, I did not do so. Senator SHELBY. In other words, this gentleman is wrong and he's lying? Is that what you're saying? Mr. ALTMAN. Mr. Steiner, as you know. did not attend the meeting did attend the meeting. Senator SHELBY. You told him about the meeting, didn't you? Mr. ALTMAN. I did attend the meeting. Senator SHELBY. Did you tell him about your impressions of the meeting? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, there's testimony under oath from the other participants-let me be very clear. No one asked me not to recuse myself. No one told me the recusal was unacceptable. No one said to me, please don't do that. So the notion that recusal was unacceptable is false. That was not said to me. Senator SHELBY. In other words, what he's saying is not true? Mr. ALTMAN. The reference to unacceptable is not true. Senator SHELBY. Why didn't you recuse yourself? Because they would have been unhappy at the White House-that is Nussbaum, Ickes, Williams- if you bad? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, let me describe the recusal decision. I went to the meeting having been advised orally and later advised in writing, that there was no legal or ethical requirement to recuse, that it was a purely personal decision. It wasn't an easy decision to make because I was also aware of the argument that I had a duty to serve. Indeed, the Office of Government Ethics Report released on Sunday, questions my decision of recusal and suggests it may have been the wrong decision because in the absence of a legal or ethical requirement to recuse, there is a requirement that you should serve so it wasn't an easy decision, and I admit being Senator SHELBY. It wasn't an easy decision, but it would have been the right decision, wouldn't it? Mr. ALTMAN. I think, I said in my decision, I should have recused myself right off the bat. this Senator SHELBY. It would have been the right decision. I want to ask you about something else. You know, we have a limited amount of time here. Referring to Josh Steiner's diary and at again, I'm quoting it: "Once again, they were concerned out him"-- about you---"turning the RTC people, they didn't know. So Roger Altman did not formally commit himself to stepping down." 450 Turning the RTC, turning someone is changing them some way. in other words, you turn a prisoner. You turn somebody. That iswhat's your interpretation of that phrase? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, if you look up a little bit, you see-and. you' quoted this a moment. ago-" "agreed to a de facto recusal where the RTC would handle this case like any other and RA," meaning me, would have no involvement.' at was the understanding that the participants in that meeting had. Why did they have that understanding? Because I explicitly told them at the meeting. I did the right thing. I said recusal is irrelevant because I wont be playing any role in. the decisions on this case. I told them not once but twice, and before that meeting, I told that to Ms. Kulka and she testified that I would have no involvement in the case, and that's my point about recusal. It had nothing to do with the RTC investigation. Whether I executed a formal recusal or remained de facto recused, I wasn't going to play any role in that case whatsoever. Senator SHELBY. Why did you duck the question Senator Gramm asked you before this same Banking Committee back in February? Mr. ALTMAN. I did not duck it. Senator SHELBY. You didn't. Mr. Josh Steiner's diary says, and you're familiar with it "they had also asked if staff had met but Roger Altman gracefully ducked the question and did not refer to phone calls he had. The next day The New York Times ran a frontpage story on the meeting. The heat was on. We spent," we spent "a tortured day trying to decide if he, " meaning you "should recuse himself." Was Mr. Steiner working with you at this time? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, what happened on February Senator SHELBY. Was he working with you at the time? Mr. ALTMAN. No, he was not in direct line responsibility to me. senator SHELBY. You were not around him during this time? Mr. ALTMAN. No. Let me be clear. Mr. Steiner served as my special assistant through the fall of 1993, 1 believe September, but I'm not certain. At that time he was promoted and be became-I might say he's privileged to be Secretary Bentsen's Chief of Staff. So at the time of these discussions, he was Chief of Staff of the Department, not my special assistant.