August 2, 1994 - Part 7
August 2, 1994 - Part 7
(18:55:32) Mr. ALTMAN. No, sir, that doesn't give me any information about the outlook for the case. Senator FAIRCLOTH. You testified in your deposition that you had no knowledge of the substance of the Madison Guaranty case, However, Harold Ickes testified that you told him about the inquiry, that the investigation was going to take longer to conclude, and that it might not conclude until after the statute of limitations expired. Ickes testified, and I quote: '?be general information from Mr. Altman was based on what he knew." How could you advise Harold Ickes if you knew nothing? Mr. ALTMAN. I did not so advise him. Senator FAIRCLOTH. Was be lying? Mi. ALTMAN. I did not so advise him, Senator. Senator FAIRCLOTH. Are you saying that Harold Ickes was lying in his testimony? Mr. ALTMAN. I did not so advise him. Senator FAIRCLOTH. You said in your deposition that you were never involved with any case. Mr. ALTMAN. I said I was never involved in decisions on any case. 446 Senator FAIRCLOTH. Jean Hanson testified that you instructed her to try to get Ellen Kulka, the RTC lawyer, to brief President Clinton's private lawyer, Dave Kendall, on the Madison case. If you had never got involved, why would you be asking anybody to brief an ybody about anything on the case? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, at the conclusion of the substantive part of the February 2 meeting, I was asked whether the same procedural information on the generic alternatives facing the RTC would be provided to the private attorneys. I'm not a lawyer. I think I said I guess so. We returned to the Treasury. Jean Hanson checked with Ms. Kulka. Ms. Kulka said something to the affected of not now or in due course. I said fine. That's what happened. Senator FAIRCLOTH. Again, you testified you were never involved in any case whatsoever. On Madison, specifically, you testified you knew nothing of the case whatsoever. In other words, nobody told ou anything about the case. Jean Hanson testified here that you ad an understanding about this type of information. She said it is standard practice to notify you if there will be issues involving Congressmen, Senators, people of national prominence, or an issue of national attention. How can you be notified if no one tells you anything? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, my policy in that regard related to press. I simply requested that before the RTC released any action which could have major press potential or leak potential, that I be advised after the decision was reached, not before, not to have any role in the decision. I wanted to know simply so that I'd be prepared for whatever inquiries could ensue. And I think if one checked, although I haven't, if one checked with like agencies, one would find they had similar policies on press. Senator FAIRCLOTH. Mr. Altman, you did not recuse yourself until after Robert Fiske was brought in on the case by Janet Reno. At the March 2 White House meeting, Bernard Nussbaum wanted to know if there was any way to take the RTC civil case away from Ellen Kulka, who he thought was too tough, and give them to Robert Fiske. Jean Hanson testified that she didn't get an ethics opinion about telling Robert Nussbaum about the criminal referral because it assisted in achieving a governmental purpose. How does meeting with Nussbaum, who then tried to get the civil case out of the hands of a lawyer that he thought was too tough and into the hands of Robert Fiske serve a governmental purpose? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator FAIRCLOTH. I don't believe there was any discussion on February 2 about moving the case to Mr. Fiske. I don't believe there was any such discussion. Senator FAIRCLOTH. Mr. Altman, did you ever walk on water? Mr. ALTMAN. No, sir. Senator FAIRCLOTH. I yield my time to Senator D'Amato. Senator D'AMATO. Mr. Chairman., are you ready? Senator BENNETT. I'm ready, but I want my full 10 minutes. Senator D'AMATO. I'll start with Mr. Bennett and give him the time. Senator SHELBY. If the Senator would yield to me, I'd take it. Senator DAMATO. I'll yield to the Senator. Senator BENNETT. I think that's the proper order'. 447 Senator DAMATO. Go ahead. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Shelby, there is little time left but they're yielding, so you go ahead. Senator SHELBY. I'll try to save it for them. I just want my time, Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Altman, you've been prepared on various occasions during your career to testify before various Committees in the House an perhaps the Senate, have you not? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, sir, many times. Senator SHELBY. And some of it started back when you were in the Carter Administration; is that Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, sir. Senator SHELBY. Would you characterize an appearance before the Senate Banking Committee acting in its oversight capacity on RTC, etcetera, as a serious undertaking?