August 2, 1994 - Part 5
August 2, 1994 - Part 5
(16:55:21) The CHAIRMAN. Let me just stop you there. It may not be a major point, my general sense was that the "heads up" comment you made gave rise to the issue of contacts that bad been going on back and forth between the White House, and that caused Mr. Fiske to want to understand exactly who had spoken to whom about what, and he then cast the net out over all these people. I believe that was the predicate that got that concern going. Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, that's also my understanding. I was just reacting to the point of whether he launched his investigation for reasons of veracity of testimony. I think you are right the way you just put it. The CHAIRMAN. Why don't you go ahead. Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, sir. I have no recollection of asking Ms. Hanson to go to the White House last fall. I did not task her to do that, using that odd word, to the best of my memory. Remember I was never myself briefed, Mr. Chairman, on the details of the criminal referral. I was never taken through it. I was never told how many referrals there were or the list or individuals named. I never had that full briefing. I believe Mr. Roelle testified, for instance, that when he first called me to talk about it, that I cut him off and said that I. didn't understand it, would be talk to Ms. Hanson, But in any event, I never had a full briefing on that, nor did I on any other case. The CHAIRMAN. Let me sharpen the question for you because we are under time limits, I will not cut you off in your responses, but I want to make sure you know exactly what it is that I'm after here so you can give a direct answer to it, And that is, she said that you did give her an instruction and tell her to go and do that. You said initially you bad no recollection of that, and I want to be clear in my mind whether you're saying categorically that you did not do that, you would not nave done that, or are you saying that you don't nave any recollection and there is a possibility, in fact, you might have done it, but just can't remember it. 417 Mr. ALTMAN. I'm saying that I have no recollection of doing it, but when I hear the term "task , " that I tasked her to do it, I don't think I would have done that, We also know, Mr. Chairman, that her meeting in September occurred in a brief aside, according to her testimony at the conclusion of another meeting, the Waco meeting, which was the reason she went in the first place. In other words, she didn't go over there solely for the purpose of talking about the matter she discussed. But the point I tried to stress, in my testimony, is that I think there is compelling evidence when I sat here before you on February 24 that I did not know of the fall meetings. And I think the facts that I cited, the numerous facts I cited, do a very strong job of corroborating that. The CHAIRMAN. Well, in hindsight now, you don't have a recollection of sending her over to do that as she recalls, you're not making categorical denial, as I just heard your words, but you can amplify that if you wish to. But looking back now and thinking about it, had you known about it ahead of time, would you have said don't do it? Was this something that should have happened? Mr. ALTMAN. Mr. Chairman, as you know, the Office of Government Ethics reviewed that matter and concluded, paraphrasing, that there was nothing inappropriate in those meetings. Now, I was questioned at great lenth and under oath by the representatives of the Office of Government Ethics , many hours and I'm sure that all the other witnesses were too, So I believe that its conclusion, the OGE's conclusion, should be taken very seriously, and I think it's most important to remember that there have been no ethical violations. The CHAIRMAN. No , I understand that. My question to you is, when you hear about that even after the fact, is that something you say to yourself, well, that shouldn't have happened. In other words, I'm trying to understand, going back to the contradiction, her recollection versus yours, if that bad come up back in that time frame, if that is something in your mind that would have caused you to react and say no, I wouldn't have had her do that because I would have thought that was an inappropriate thing to do. Mr. ALTMAN. my understanding is that she advised the White House in September for reasons of an impending press leak and I believe Mr. Roelle confirmed his understanding to be the same, and others who have testified or will testify will say that.