August 2, 1994 - Part 3
August 2, 1994 - Part 3
(13:10:45) Senator HATCH. If you would, I'd appreciate it. Mr. STEINER. Harold and George then called to say that BC was furious. They also asked how Jay Stephens, the former USA, had been hired to be Outside Counsel on this case. Simply outrageous that RTC had hired him, but even more amazing when George then suggested to me that we need to find a way to get rid of him. Persuaded George that firing him would be incredibly stupid and improper. Should I continue? Senator HATCH. Yes. Mr. STEINER. The New York-the NYT wrote a very mean editorial which referred to the 'boneheaded conclave convened by RA.' Lessons: Do what you think is the right thing early [recuse]. Remember that everything might eventually be asked about under oath. Don't let the WH get involved in any way. Senator HATCH. That's fine. Now, the passage you've read from your diary describes the events occurring on February 25; right? Mr. STEINER. Yes, it does. Senator HATCH, You attempted to summarize these events accurately when you wrote them in your diary? 371 Mr. STEINER. As I've said before, Senator, I think there are thin gs here which not exactly reflect the chronology or the nuance of what at occurred. Senator HATCH. But as far as you were concerned, there's nothing in there that you would disavow at this point? Mr. STEINER. Let me make it clear, for example, that neither Mr. Stephanopoulos nor Mr. Ickes ever told me that the President was unhappy. I never learned that directly from either of them. I can go on and find other examples of things Senator HATCH. But the rest of it you would say is accurate? Mr. STEINER. No, if you want, I can go through it sentence by sentence and describe it for you. Senator D'AMATO. Senator, can you yield for a moment. Where did you learn that from then? You didn't make that up? Mr. STEINER. No. Senator DAMATO. Mr. Steiner, the Senator asked if that was a fair representation of your thoughts, and you're now saying that you just put in your diary that Bill Clinton, the President of the United States, was furious? I find it incredible for you to say that you just-it just found its way there. Where did you get that impression? You said neither Mr. Altman nor Mr. Stephanopoulos told you this? Then who did? Mr. STEINER. Senator, I believe I said that neitber Mr. Ickes nor Mr. Stephanopoulos told me that. Senator DAMATO. Then who did? Mr. STEINER. Mr. Altman relayed to me a conversation that he had with Mr. Stephanopoulos and Mr. Ickes. During the course of that conversation, I believe he learned that the President was unhappy about the manner in which Mr. Altman bad recused himself Senator D'AMATO. So Bill Clinton' was furious that he bad recused himself'? Senator HATCH. According to what you wrote there. Mr. STEINER. As I said, Senator, I cannot recall the exact words that Mr. Altman used to describe that conversation. Senator D'AMATO. This is the first time-it takes us a difficult time to get you to-these words are written down and then you kind of run away so Mr. STEINER. Senator, let me just say, I'm not running away from this. I wrote it and- Senator D'AMATO. OK That's what the Senator was asking you and I apologize. I yield to the Senator. Senator HATCH. Could I have back the few minutes I lost there? The CHAIRMAN. I can give you another minute back here and then we have to go to Senator Sarbanes. Senator HATCH. All right. Let me just ask you, you wrote that diary entry on February 25; right? Mr. STEINER. On the 27th, Senator. Senator HATCH. Twenty-seventh, that's right. So that was two days after it actually happened on the 25th? Mr. STEINER. That's correct. Senator HATCH. So the events of the 25th were fixed and fresh your mind at that time? Mr. STEINER. Senator, I would say 372 Senator HATCH. You only had 2 days intervening, is what I'M saying. Mr. STEINER. That's correct. Senator HATCH. In the first phone call, George Stephanopoulos spoke with you about attorney Jay Stephens; is that at right? Mr. STEINER. That's correct, Senator. Senator HATCH. The phone call took place right after the White House learned that Roger Altman had decided to recuse himself from the Madison Guaranty matter; right? Mr. STEINER. That is correct. Senator HATCH. In fact, George Stephanopoulos raised two topics on the phone call. One related to Mr. Altman's decision to recuse, and the other related to the hiring of Jay Stephens; right? Mr. STEINER. I cannot recall, Senator, whether I raised the recusal issue or whether be did, but I do recall be raised the issue of Mr. Stephens. Senator HATCH. But Mr. Stephanopoulos made it very clear to ou that he was very upset that the RTC hired Stephens. In fact, is voice was even raised according to your deposition; is that right? Mr. STEINER. I think he felt that it was a conflict of interest in this instance. Senator HATCH. He was upset and he raised his voice; right? That's what you said in your deposition. Mr. STEINER. That's correct. Senator HATCH. Mr. Stephanopoulos asked how Mr. Stephens had been hired; right? Mr. STEINER. That is correct. Senator HATCH. After you told him that the hiring bad been through ordinary procedures, he then argued that Mr. Stephens should be disqualified for a conflict of interest; isn't that correct? Mr. STEINER. I can't recall whether be argued that position Senator HATCH. That's what you said in your deposition. Mr. STEINER. I think be made it a point that Mr. Stephens was probably facing a conflict of interest, given the public comments that he made about this Administration.