August 2, 1994 - Part 3
August 2, 1994 - Part 3
(12:45:29) Mr. FOREMAN. That's correct. Senator ROTH. Why is that? Mr. FOREMAN. Well, I have described in my opening statement what occurred. If I may take 30 seconds to explain one comment. I am the Designated Ethics Official. I've worked with Ms. Hanson for over a year. When she comes to me for my advice, she doesn't have to lay out what considerations she wants to hear from me. She knows I'm the Senior Ethics Official. Obviously without her stating it aloud, one of the reasons she asked me to look at the talking points was to see if I had any ethical responses, and that's the question about nonpublic information, which is certainly an 363 ethics standards of conduct thing, was very much in my mind as I reviewed those talking points. Senator ROTH. Mr, Chairman, I know my time is up but I do have some additional questions. The CHAIRMAN. We'll come back around. That's true, I think, for almost every Senator. Senator Campbell. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR BEN NIGHTHORSE CAMPBELL Senator CAMPBELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. While we've been asking questions, I'm sitting here trying to remember what I did on February 1st, or the 2nd, or the 3rd, and I can't remember a thing of who I met with or who I talked to. And we 've been going through 3 days now of "he said, but she said, but I said," and so much is being made out of the exact responses that I would hope that the inability to remember exactly what they were doing that long ago wouldn't be construed as intentional misconduct, certainly not criminal behavior. But often that's the way it's viewed, I guess. I'm not particularly interested in Mr. Steiner's diary. I want to associate myself with many of the comments my friend Barbara Boxer made, except I do worry a little bit about people thinking we're old and numb, instead, they might think we're old and dumb after we get done with this. That diary was written, much of it on the spur of the moment, much with very dramatic and passionate responses that I would think a young person would write, and very sporadic, sometimes not making any entries for 6 weeks at a time. I rarely write notes except to remind myself of things, but I know if I write things down and 6 weeks later I look at it I can't remem- ber what the beck I was supposed to do with that note, So I don't put an awful lot of credibility in how important his diary is. One thing that does come through very strong to me with Mr. Steiner is that it's really a shame we put him through this kind of an inquisition because I think it really discourages young people from oing into public service in the first place. While I was listening to him testify, I was wondering to myself how much he would rather be back at the New York Library than here and, I think, if I was in his place, I would probably consider that too. It's probably a little less traumatic. The other thing is that it sends a message to young people coming in Government services, don't take notes. Don't keep any diaries because you don't know what the heck they're going to be used for or when they're going to be subpoenaed. I hope you won't give up on Government because of your bad experience here. I just really bad one on two questions for Mr. Foreman dealing with ethics because I don't know quite how it works, but as I understand it, you're the Senior Ethics Officer; is that correct, Mr. Foreman? Mr. FOREMAN. Yes, that's correct for the Department, Senator CAMPBELL. What is the relationship between Treasury and the RTC in their ethics-each agency has its own ethics officer and they comply with the Government Code of Ethics. Is there 364 some interaction, or some connection, or does RTC even have a ethics system in place? Mr. FOREMAN. Senator, they do have a very fine ethics senior officer, and we worked together on a number of matters in 1993. Senator CAMPBELL. You do have regular interaction with RTC? Mr. FOREMAN. We did in 1993, at least, when Mr. Altman was the interim CEO. Senator CAMPBELL. Under normal conditions, you're the one that would suggest to Treasury officials if they were going to do something, whether it would be considered within the boundaries of the ethical behavior standards of conduct or not. Mr. FOREMAN. Myself or one of the senior ethics lawyers who works for me, sir. Senator CAMPBELL. But RTC, they're advised by somebody else? Mr. FOREMAN. Yes, sir, that's correct. Senator CAMPBELL. en does something become public information? If you were giving advice on the use of some ethical standard dealing with public information, before it became public-Senator Bond mentioned this and I'm not sure I can phrase It the same way-but I understand that the ethical behavior stays the same, whether it's nonpublic or becomes public; is that correct? Mr. FOREMAN. There may be different factors that you would look to see whether there's an ethical violation, sir, depending on whether it's public or nonpublic information. And there's a provision or several provisions in the standards of conduct that speak to those kinds of distinctions.