August 2, 1994 - Part 3
August 2, 1994 - Part 3
(12:40:30) Senator ROTH. Now, in your deposition, you testified that no one from the Treasury Department consulted with you in advance of the September 29, 1993, meeting, at which Mr. Altman instructed Treasury General Counsel, Jean Hanson, to brief White House Counsel, Bernard Nussbaum, on the confidential RTC referrals regarding Madison Guaranty; is that correct? Mr. FOREMAN.Yes, Senator, it is. Senator ROTH. Now, Mr. Foreman, three Treasury Department officials, Ms. Hanson, Mr. Steiner, and Jack Devore, attended the October 14, 1993, meeting at the White House, at which there was further discussion of confidential information re regarding the RTC referrals regarding Madison Guaranty. Did any of these three officials or anyone else from the Treasury Department consult with you to seek out your ethics opinion prior to that meeting? Mr. FOREMAN. To the best of my recollection, Senator Roth, they did not. Senator ROTH. So despite the fact that the September 29 and Oc- tober 14 meetings involved Treasury officials discussing confiden- tial information regarding RTC criminal referrals with White House officials, you , Mr. Foreman, as the Agency Ethics Officer were not consulted in advance regarding the propriety of these meetings; is that correct? Mr. FOREMAN, Senator, I'm sorry, I don't know the facts behind your first phrase, but as to the second phrase, I was not-that is, the despite, as you mentioned. I don't know the facts there. But certainly, as you say, I was not consulted. Senator ROTH. Mr. Foreman, you also testified in your deposition that as Agency Ethics Officer, you were not consulted regarding the propriety of any telephone conversations or other contacts between Ms. Hanson and Mr. Altman and anybody in the White House prior to February 1, 1994. Mr. FOREMAN. Yes, Senator, that's correct. Senator ROTH. On February 2, Mr. Altman and Ms. Hanson met with White House officials, including those outside of the White House Counsel's Office, to further discuss the RTC criminal referrals regarding Madison. Mr. Altman has said that you met with Ms. Hanson prior to the meeting and provided your ethical clearance. Yet, in your deposition, you stated that neither the words "ethics" or "clearance" were ever used in your brief discussion with Ms. Hanson prior to the February 2 meeting; is that correct? 362 Mr. FOREMAN. Senator, I must have misunderstood. I though I thought you began your question with saying that they went to the White House to further discuss the criminal referrals. Not to my knowledge edge. I believe that February 2 meeting only related to procedures about the civil claims, if I may. Senator ROTH. But let me ask, in your deposition, you did state that neither the words "ethics" or "clearance" were used in your brief Mr. FOREMAN. That's correct, Senator. Senator ROTH. You also testified, in your deposition that, in fact no formal ethical review was conducted prior to the February 2, 1994 meeting; is that correct? Mr. FOREMAN. No formal ethical review in terms of research, analysis, and hours of thought, that's correct. Senator ROTH. Now, you did have a meeting with Ms. Hanson about 90 minutes before Ms. Hanson and Roger Altman went to the February 2, White House meeting; is that correct? Mr. FOREMAN. To the best of my recollection, Senator Roth, it was midafternoon. If that turns out to he 90 minutes, then that's correct. Senator ROTH. Roughly that time. Mr. FOREMAN. Yes, Senator. Senator ROTH. As I understand it, this meeting lasted 2 or 3 minutes and neither the word "ethics" nor "clearance" was used? Mr. FOREMAN. That's correct, Senator. Senator ROTH. At the February 2, 1994, White House meeting, Mr. Altman apparently claimed that be had received a verbal opinion from Ethics Counsel that be did not legally have to recuse himself Did you give such a verbal opinion? Mr. FOREMAN. I don't recall doing so, Senator, no. Senator ROTH. Or did you tell Ms. Hanson before that meeting that you thought Mr. Altman should recuse himself? Mr. FOREMAN. Yes, Senator, I did. Senator ROTH. Mr. Foreman, in your deposition, you. were read the following quotation from Mr. Altman's, March 3, 1994, letter to the Banking Committee, and I quote: Treasury General Counsel who had also attended the meeting has advised me that before the meeting, she sat down with this Department's Designated Ethics Ofricer. She informed him of the purposes of the meeting and asked his view. He advised her that he saw no problem.