August 2, 1994 - Part 2
August 2, 1994 - Part 2
(12:05:20) Mr. STEINER. I do not recall their advice at this time, no. Senator BRYAN. Do you recall anybody at that meeting or at that time frame on this tortured day, as you've characterized it, that urged Mr. Altman not to recuse himself? Mr. STEINER. I don't recall specific guidance that he received one way or another, Senator. 354 Senator BRYAN. Mr. Foreman, a question of you. You indicated earlier, with respect to that initial contact with Mr. Nussbaum that you found that was, from an ethical point of view, proper, Is that in essence your testimony? Mr. FOREMAN. Senator, in response to a hypothetical about that, that's what I said. There appears to be a legitimate purpose there. Senator BRYAN. Are we talking about the meeting that was held on September 29? Mr. FOREMAN. Senator, I answered a question about a hypothetical. That's all I can comment on. I don't know any of the details of those fall meetings. I'm sorry. Senator BRYAN. Well, I think the record will reflect that after Ms. Hanson was notified on the 27th by Mr. Roelle, that there was a meeting with Mr. Nussbaum, as I recall, on September 29, at which time this was being discussed with Mr. Nussbaum. Assume for the sake of argument that is correct. You've indicated in response to a previous question that you found an ethical problem with information which had been imparted with respect to the referral being shared with Mr. Nussbaum. Mr, FOREMAN. Senator, that's correct, I said there were no ethics violation there. I didn't speak to the appearance or judgment questions. Senator BRYAN. You're referring to the ethical standard? Mr. FOREMAN. Yes, sir. Senator BRYAN. Would your answer be the same if you knew at the time that Ms. Hanson received the information, she was told by Mr. Roelle, that this was confidential? Would that alter your opinion? Mr. FOREMAN. I certainly would need to pay attention to whatever the rules might be within the RTC, of which I was not aware at the time. Senator BRYAN. Assume for the sake of argument, there was no prior knowledge that Mr. Nussbaum had of this referral that was being made, and the only source of that information came from Ms. Hanson and her conversation. Would it still be your view that would be an ethical contact for her to make? Mr. FOREMAN. Senator, are you presenting that with knowledge of the RTC policy or not? Senator BRYAN. I'm asking you. You are the individual who is the guardian, as I understand it, of ethical standards for the Department, and I'm just asking you your own view as to whether or not this would be ethical. Mr. FOREMAN. I appreciate it, sir. I just need to know all the circumstances which I'm commenting about. As I understand it ' and not very well from recent press reports and some parts of testimony, and also the OGE report, and the OGE bad access to more information than I know now. OGE determined that it was a legitimate Government purpose for Ms. Hanson to tell Mr. Nussbaum Chat there were impending press leaks about these criminal referrals. I don't know the extent of the information that was passed at that time, Senator BRYAN. My time is up. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. Senator Bennett. 355 OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR ROBERT F. BENNETT Senator BENNETT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Steiner, you have said here-is this on-are we back to that problem? The CHAIRMAN. I don't know. Let's check and make sure the volume is up on the microphone, please, Talk good and loud into it. Mr. STEINER. I can bear you, Senator. Senator BENNETT. I'm not sure the television The CHAIRMAN. It's got to be beard by everybody in the room. Senator BENNETT. I hope this isn't counting on my time. The CHAIRMAN. No. We'll protect your time. Senator BENNETT. Let me move down. Let the record show that's the auxiliary microphone that was put there yesterday to fix the one that didn't work before that one came about. Thank you. Mr. Steiner, you've testified today, referring to Roger Altman, he wanted this case handled in identical fashion to all other cases. Is that a true statement? Mr. STEINER. Yes, sir. Senator BENNETT. I go to your diary, then, where you say, "for weeks we have been battling over how Roger Altman should handle the RTC investigation of Madison Guaranty S&L." Battling for weeks trying to decide how to handle it. It doesn't sound like a decision we're going to handle in identical fashion to all other cases. Can you reconcile the implications of those two statements?