August 2, 1994 - Part 1
August 2, 1994 - Part 1
(10:50:35) Senator SHELBY, You said: -Roger Altman should-handle the RTC investigation of Madison Guaranty Savings & Loan. Initially, we all felt that he should recuse himself to avoid even the appearance of a conflict. And then you get into another word you use. At a fateful White House meeting with Nussbaum, Ickes, and Williams, the White House staff told Roger Altman that it was unacceptable. What was unacceptable, his recusal? Mr. STEINER. Let me clarify, Senator. Senator SHELBY. I don't want you to clarify. Is that your reference that his recusal was unacceptable? Mr. STEINER. My reference is that Mr. Nussbaum made strong arguments against recusal. Senator SHELBY. Mr. Nussbaum. Did anyone else besides Mr. Nussbaum make strong arguments at the White House meeting against Roger Altman recusing himself? Mr. STEINER. I did not attend that meeting, but to the best of my knowledge, no. Senator SHELBY. Then you refer to this Senate Banking Committee oversight hearing, this group of Senators here, at the hearing, and the recusal amazingly did not come up. Obviously, you all were very concerned about it coming up. Mr. STEINER. Could I make a point on that entry if I might, Senator? Senator SHELBY. Yes, sir. Mr. STEINER. We were anticipating 343 Senator SHELBY. You were anticipating questions about it, were you not? Mr. STEINER. We were anticipating questions specifically about why Mr. Altman had not recused himself. I was surprised that those questions did not come up, nor to the best of my recollection did any Senators request that Mr. Altman recuse himself. That surprised me, yes, sir. Senator SHELBY. Mr. Steiner, do you believe that when a Cabinet member, a sub-Cabinet member comes before a Committee like the Banking Committee or any Committee, for an oversight hearing, that they should be forthright, they should be candid, and they should be honest in answering questions? Mr. STEINER. Yes, I do, very strongly, Senator. Senator SHELBY. In your entry here, you also are referring to the oversight bearing by the Senate Banking Committee, and you said, "but ]Roger Altman, RA, gracefully ducked the questions and did not refer to phone calls he had." Is that being candid with this Committee? Mr. STEINER. Senator, I believe what Mr. Altman said, and I'm sure he'll have an opportunity to explain to you exactly what he said himself, but I believe what be said was that he'd had one substantive meeting when we were preparing for his testimony. That was the only meeting that came up as part of our preparations. For example, I did not even recall the October meeting until I was reminded of it some time later. And so, I think, that is the reason Mr. Altman answered the question the way he did. Senator SHELBY. Going back to words, again, when you use the word "substantive meeting" instead of "meetings," was that a way to dodge the real question that was asked by one of the Members of this Committee? That's your reference, isn't that right? He "gracefully ducked the questions." Isn't that your reference? It couldn't be anything else, could it? He gracefully ducked the question by answering, "I had one substantive meeting," rather than being honest and candid and telling the Banking Committee of all the meetings he had. Mr. STEINER. Let me be clear on this, Senator. I think, to the best of my knowledge, that Mr. Altman was truthful and forthright before this Committee, and when he answered that question, he referred to the one substantive meeting that he knew about. Senator SHELBY. Well, if he was honest, forthright, and candid before this Committee, why did you put in your diary that he gracefully ducked the question? Mr. STEINER. I cannot recall, Senator, why I wrote the words that I did. Senator SHELBY. We've got a convenient memory here today, but these diaries speak for themselves, don't they? Mr. STEINER. Senator, I'm here testifying today under oath. I've already stated the circumstances in which I wrote these, and I'm being as forthright as I possibly can. Senator SHELBY. Mr. Chairman, one last word I want to touch on, You also put in your diary, we spent a tortured day trying to decide if he should recuse himself. Do you recall using that word, a "tortured" day to describe the day? That was a tough day, was it not? 344 Mr. STEINER. It was a tough day, Senator, that's correct.