August 2, 1994 - Part 1
August 2, 1994 - Part 1
(10:00:15) Mr. STEINER. Mr. Altman returned from that meeting, and as I said, I spoke to him at some point that afternoon, and be described to me what were strong arguments made by Mr. Nussbaum at that meeting. I suspect I, without choosing my words particularly carefully, interpreted those arguments as encouraging him in a direction-let me make it very clear that, at no point, did Mr. Altman say to me, I feel under pressure or the White House is pressuring me to do something; let me also make it clear, if I might that to the best of my knowledge, Mr. Nussbaum was the only person who made 327 those comments on the subject of recusal so when I use the White House, it is a euphemism for Mr. Nussbaum, The CHAIRMAN. I'd like YOU to now search your memory. When you say that Mr. Altman described to you what had been said by Mr. Nussbaum that created this impression of intense pressure, I want you to think ' as carefully as you can, as to exactly how Mr. Altman would have described that to you. What did he say to you? Mr. STEINER. I want to make it clear, Senator, that it was not my impression at the time that be was under intense pressure. As I said before, I did not write this diary for the purposes of providing a precise narrative. Mr. Altman recounted to me what I believe were two arguments made by Mr. Nussbaum. I know that he has testified before on this subject. The first argument was that he was concerned about recusal as a precedent for other Administration officials. The second concern was that the RTC had a reputation for being a fairly partisan institution, and be was concerned that in Mr. Altman's absence, this investigation, which Mr. Altman had made clear that he wanted handled in a completely nonpartisan, nonpolitical matter, would be carried out in a partisan fashion, I believe those were the two concerns Mr. Nussbaum expressed. The CHAIRMAN, Time is not going to permit me to go to your next entry right now, but that's much more important and it comes right behind your first entry that we just talked about, where you clarify and you say, "at a fateful White House meeting with Nussbaum, Ickes, and Williams, however, the White House staff told Roger Altman that it was unacceptable." That's now with respect to the recusal. Now there's some words before that and after that, and I'm going to read those when time permits. But the 7-minute time periods here are limiting to us in that regard. It's very clear to me, from reading your diary, which you wrote to yourself, not thinking an ybody would ever read it, that there was a problem here of Mr. Alt- man being under very significant pressure with respect to this decision. When I have the chance, I'll come back and lay out the remaining entries that you gave here, so that you can respond to those. Senator DAmato. Senator D'AMATO. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. The CHAiRmAN. Let me just ask unanimous consent that these entries go into the record. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR ALFONSE M. DAMATO Senator D'AMATO. Let me go to this point Senator Riegle just touched on and that you just began to speak to. You said that one Of the things that Secretary Altman told you was that Mr. Nuss- baum advanced two reasons for not recusing himself, one being a precedent and the other being that the RTC was partisan and that, in the event that Mr. Altman stepped aside, he was concerned about them being partisan? Do you recall him saying partisan or tough? Because, I mean there's been numerous accounts now, and everyone has used the word tough, and there's a big difference. ~ Mr, STEINER. I appreciate that distinction, Senator. I don't recall the precise words that Mr. Altman used. That was the impression 328 that I had at the time. I think the concern was, as I said be Mr. Altman had made it very clear to Treasury staff and to RTC staff that he wanted this case handled in an identical fashion to all other cases at the RTC. That meant in a hands-off nonpartisan fashion. Senator D'AMATO. Why would you brief the White House on the issue of recusal? Don't you think that goes into an area that shouldn't have been discussed? Let me say this. Did you have any conversation with Roger Altman before the February 2 meeting at the White House concerning the subjects to be covered at that meeting? Mr. STEINER. I recall meetings on the general subject of Madison and the general subject of recusal and the statute of limitations deadline. I do not recall meetings that specifically addressed the subjects for that meeting. Senator DAMATO. Did you testify in your deposition that the two subjects to be discussed were the statute of limitations applied in Madison and the issue of Roger Altman's recusal? Mr. STEINER. It would be helpful, Senator, if I could see a copy of the deposition. I've now given testimony 5 times. It would be helpful if I could have a copy in front of me.