August 1, 1994 - Part 9
August 1, 1994 - Part 9
(23:36:03) Senator GRAMM. This is not foreign policy, Chris. Senator DODD. There are facts which could warrant a communiSenator GRAMM. I'm just going to assert, based on what you have identical said, that it would-if everything else had been except this rumor of a press leak-it would have been unethical for you to have passed on the information. Ms. HANSON. That's not what--all things being-if there was no governmental purpose, it would not have been appropriate or proper. There was a governmental purpose here, and the Office of Government Ethics has so concluded. Senator GRAMM. How do you delineate here-it's unethical to tell someone who represents someone who is mentioned in nine criminal referrals. That's a violation of Government ethics. In fact we've had a couple of people who read the actual ethics standards, but yet, if you have heard that it might be leaked to the media, it's OK Do you really believe that there is a justification for giving someone information about a criminal referral because you have heard that it might be leaked to the media? You've never seen it in the media. You've never talked to anybody from the media. You're not the Press Secretary. You didn't claim, here, you had talked to anybody in the media, or with any newspaper, that's going to publish it. You had heard-that someone else had talked to somebody in the media and, therefore, it made it OK for you to call the General Counsel to the President of the United States and tell him that his boss was mentioned in nine criminal referrals? Do you really believe that makes it OK? Ms. HANSON. I don't believe I said he was mentioned in nine criminal referrals. Sir, I had this information from a very good source and someone Senator GRAMM. Could you tell us what the source was? Ms. HANSON. I understood, from Mr. Roelle, that these referrals were going to be leaked to the press as soon as they arrived in Washington. Senator GRAMM. And he knew this, based on past experience? Ms. HANSON. I don't know what the basis was, although, as I've stated, the IG chronology that was released to the public yesterday, indicates that Mr. Dudine was aware on September 23, 1993, that a reporter was getting close to something about these very criminal 199 referrals. I suspect, based on this, Mr. Roelle had information that led him to reach that conclusion that was more than just speculation and, in fact, he was right, because they were leaked to the press, and very, very possibly before I talked with Mr. Nussbaum, because it was confirmed the following day. The CHAIRMAN. Let me interrupt, your time is up. I think we've gotten as far as we're going to get on that exchange. You've both made your points, they're there, and they've been restated. Senator DAmato. Senator D'AmATo. Let me, if I might, take you to the afternoon of February 3, 1994, when you were at lunch, and the beeper went off. Would you try to recount what took place? Ms. HANSON. I was at lunch. My beeper went off twice. The second time it went off, I went to the front of the restaurant. There was a call waiting for me. It was my secretary, who said that Mr. Altman had called, or his office had called, to say that there was a meeting that was going to take place at the White House right then, that I needed to come back immediately, and that Mr. Alt-man was waiting for me. I paid my bill, expressed my regrets to my luncheon companion, and went back to the Treasury He was gone. I was told I was to meet him in Maggie Williams office. I went, and when I arrived in Ms. Williams' office Mr. Eggleston, Mr. Ickes, and Ms. Williams were all there. The were all standing up and I was told that Mr. Altman had just Senator D AMATO. Did you have a conversation with any of the people there, then?