August 1, 1994 - Part 9
August 1, 1994 - Part 9
(23:00:26) Question: Who in Treasury or the RTC knew that you had this conversation? Answer: I don't recall that I told anyone of the conversation. Question: Did you tell Mr. Altman? Answer. No. Question: Did anyone ask you to have this conversation? Answer: No. I, again, put to you this very basic question about how you got to see Mr. Nussbaum. Was it on your own, or at Mr. Altman's instruction? Ms. HANSON. Sir, I have thought about this very carefully, over a period of time, and I firmly recall having a conversation with Mr. Altman, on the subject, and being given the responsibility to talk with Mr. Nussbaum., as I've stated. I have testified, now, under oath. Senator DODD. Could I just-one second. I heard you respond to this question maybe 10 times in the last 12 hours, and maybe my ears nave picked it up. I heard you use the word "authorized" or the phrase "given the responsibility'' but the Senator from Mary- land asked the question differently. I mean, the question is whether you, on your own initiative, saw Mr. Nussbaum, or whether or not you were directed by Mr. Altman to see Mr. Nussbaum? Do you understand what I'm saying? The question is whether or not you had authorization to do it, or whether you were directed to do it? Ms. HANSON. I understood that I had the responsibility for telling Mr. Nussbaum. Now I don't. Senator DODD. Is that implied by the statute that you talked about earlier, or did Mr. Altman say to you, "Jean, I want you to go see Mr. Nussbaum at the White House and tell him what's going on here"? Ms. HANSON. I don't recall the exact words of the conversation Senator DODD. I understand that. Ms. HANSON. -but I recall the substance of the conversation, and the substance of the conversation was that I should tell this information to Mr. Nussbaum because it was going to leak to the press. You can call it tasked, or given responsibility. Senator DODD. I apologize, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. If you'll permit me. Do you happen to remember where that happened? Do you have a scene in mind? Ms. HANSON. It was in Mr. Altman's office, right after I spoke with Mr. Roelle, 192 The CHAIRMAN. So you can place it, you have a picture in your mind as to where you were when this was said to you? Ms. HANSON. Yes, sir, I do. As I say, I recall that Mr. Altman had a file he asked his secretary to bring, a file which she brought in and out of which he took a copy of an RTC-actually, I had orgotten that it was an RTC clip sheet, but he took out an article that had appeared in The New York Times. He had a copy made and gave it to me which, as I've stated, Mr. Nussbaum, in his testimony, has said that, in my initial conversation with him, I told him Mr.-I understood that Mr. Altman had sent him, had already, previous ly, given him information about this. That's not information I would have had, that piece of information that Mr. Altman had previously given him information, without having talked with Mr. Altman in anticipation of going to talk with Mr. Nussbaum. That's just, as I say, that's just a statement that I've learned of recently. The CHAIRMAN. Was what he gave you out of his folder, then, a copy of the same thing he'd sent over to the White House earlier? Ms. HANSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Gramm, Senator GRAMM. Let me be sure I've got this right, because this is goign did to be important tomorrow. He gave you that article, which you not have nor did you have access to, in his office when be told you to contact Mr. Nussbaum? Ms. HANsON. I don't recall, sir, if it was in that same conversation or in a subsequent conversation. I recall, though, if you look at Mr. Sloan's notes, the first thing it says is "Altman's files, NYT 3/2/92, Altman thinks" Senator DODD. Just one second. Maybe it's the hour, but I just heard you say, in response to Senator Sarbanes' or Senator Riegle's question, that you recalled the meeting because you had an article, because the Secretary was in the room. In response to Senator Gramm, you're saying you can't recall, whether or not, you were given the article or the memo at that particular meeting?. Ms. HANSON. I think, maybe, we're all getting tired, because I thought I just heard you say something about the Secretary being in the room. Let me make clear-let me do this again. I recall, specifically, having a conversation with Mr. Altman, in his office, shortly after I had the telephone conversation with Mr. Roelle.