August 1, 1994 - Part 8
August 1, 1994 - Part 8
(22:10:37) Senator DAMATO. The Secretary told him that? Ms. HANSON. That's my recollection, sir. Then Mr Altman said he wanted to go to the White House to apprise the White House officials of his decision on recusal before they learned of it from someone else. I said I would along. Senator DAMATO. You told him you thought if he went, you should go with him? Ms. HANSON. That's right, sir, Senator D'AMATO. Fine. At the February 2, 1994, meeting at the White House, do you recall what happened? Ms. HANSON. I think, in my written testimony, I testified to the extent of my recollection of that meeting already, sir. 179 Senator DAMATO. Do you want to go over that? Ms. HANSON. Do you want me to do it again? Senator DAMATO, Yes, because you didn't testify to it here, I'd appreciate it, if you gave a deposition-Altman first reads down the talking points. You had prepared talking points. Ms. HANSON. That's right. I had prepared talking points and Senator DAMATO. What about Mr. Altman and the subject of recusal? Ms. HANSON. Do you want me to go through this meeting?. Senator DAMATO. Yes. I want to Ms. HANSON, I prepared the talking points. I discussed them with Mr. Altman before we went over, and pointed out the last talking point. We arrived. Mr. Altman went through the talking points. I I've previously testified as to who attended the meeting. Mr. Altman went through the talking points, all the way to the final talking point. Senator DAMATO. Is this a fair thing-again, in the interest of time, did Mr. Altman report that he was going to recuse himself at this meeting? Ms. HANsON. It's my recollection that Mr. Altman read the last talking point. Senator DAMATO. I'm going through your-Did you indicate that you had recommended the recusal? Ms. HANSON. He indicated that I recommended the recusal, and I added that the Secretary agreed. Senator DAMATO. OK That's good. Did Mr. Nussbaum inquire, if Mr. Altman recuses himself, who would take over? That's the meeting when Mr. Altman-or Mr. Nussbaum may have been somewhat agitated in the discussion about Ms. Kulka. Ms. HANSON. Yes. Senator DAMATO. Mr. Nussbaum complains about Ms. Kulka being tough? I'm summarizing. Ms. HANSON. He said that he had a prior experience with her when he was in private practice. Senator DAMATO. Mr. Nussbaum says that, even if Mr. Altman is not legally required to recuse himself, his continued involvement in the process would impose ".discipline on the process and lead to a fairer result." Ms. HANSON. What are you reading from? Senator DAmATo. I'm reading from your deposition, I'm trying to be helpful. Do you recall that? Ms. HANsON. Would you read that again, please? Senator DAMATO. What did Mr. Nussbaum say about Ms. Kulka? Do you want to recall that? What else did he say? Ms. HANSON. Mr. Nussbaum said that he wasn't saying she was a bad lawyer, but that she was tough. He asked Mr. Altman why he had to recuse himself, since no one appeared to think that it was legally or ethically required. He said that I had recommended it, and I said the Secretary had agreed. Senator DAMATO. Did you understand that Mr. Nussbaum was displeased with the prospect that Ms. Kulka would be the decisionmaker if Mr. Altman recused himself? Ms. HANSON. I wouldn't characterize it as displeased. I have said that Mr. Nussbaum was agitated. 180 Senator DAMATO. Le me read, then, from our deposition. When you spoke to Mr. Eggleston said, I "I recall Mr. Eggleston stated you said, Bernie must have gone ballistic, and I said , yes, he laughed and laughed and that's all I recall." I mean, it's obvious, from your previous depositions, that Mr. Nussbaum was not happy with this. Is that true? Ms. HANSON. That was Senator DAMATO. Did you tell him to reconsider it? Ms. HANSON. -from a different conversation. I don't recall that he asked him to reconsider. I think he presented his views, and Mr. Altman said he would think about them overnight. Senator D'AMATo. On February 3 or 4, 1994, did you receive a call from the White House inquiring how Ms. Kulka was hired?