August 1, 1994 - Part 7
August 1, 1994 - Part 7
(20:35:26) Senator GRAMM. Ms. Hanson, you've 1 already said to us that you would have never gone to this September 29, 1993, meeting save a direct order by Mr. Altman. How could you, then, think that he did not know about the meeting? I forget a lot of things, but I don't 153 forget there are some things, that are extraordinary enough, that I would not do unless somebody told me to do them. I wouldn't forget they had told me to do them. Ms. HANSON. Sir, that letter was put together very quickly, late in the day, in response-and it dealt, only, with the responses to Senator Bond's questions. As I stated, we had several conference calls with Jack DeVore on March 2, 1994, trying to even remember why the October 14, 1993, meeting had taken place and who was there. We had just not thought about it for a very long time. I had not thought about it, seriously, for a very long time. Senator GRAmm. Ms. Hanson Senator SASSER. Mr. Chairman, I hate to interrupt the Senator, but many of us are waiting to do our questioning and when we- Senator GRAmm. I'll come back when it's our turn. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Sasser makes a good point, and I appreciate your desisting. I would hope that, in the remainder of the evening if we can we're going to try to stick to the lights. It would be helpful if everybody would Keep track of it, on both sides, so that I don't have to interrupt, because I prefer not to, but I will if we run much over. Senator BOXER. Mr. Chairman, I hope you will stick to the lights and then we can all stay late, those of us who want to stay late. I'm willing to stay Senator GRAmm. If you'll just tap your gavel-what happens is you start looking at your notes and you're not looking at the lights. The CHAIRMAN. I understand. It's happened on both sides. That's a fair way to do it. Senator Moseley-Braun. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm only chuckling, Mr. Chairman, for Senator Murray and myself This is our first round, and you just went to the light system, for real, on our first round. And it's OK. It's all right, We understand. I just want to clarify, for the record, with Ms. Hanson. Ms. Hanson, as General Counsel for the Department of Treasury, you did not have any direct role with regard to the RTC. Is that correct? Ms. HANSON. That's correct. Senator MOSELEY-BRAuN. So, with regard to the seven conversations and all of these involvements that you have regarding RTC matters, there was a clear blurring of the lines of responsibility? Ms. HANSON. As I've stated, Mr. Altman had the statutory authority to utilize Treasury personnel and had the statutory authorit ity, as the RTC CEO, to use that personnel. I, from my perspective, always considered myself to be acting in my capacity as General Counsel to the Treasury. That's the only capacity that I had. Senator MOSELEY-BRAuN. That is correct, but under the law, section 1441-A, when a member borrows an employee from another agency, it suggests that that is a---that's a specific act. In fact, it provides for reimbursement, as I recollect, of those borrowed appointiees. In that regard, bad you had a conversation with Mr. Altman that he was borrowing you from Treasury for purposes of your work on RTC-related matters? Ms. HANSON. No one considered it in those terms. The difficulty was that there were-it is difficult to parse all the various activi- 154 ties that people were involved in. As I stated, I was not involved in case-specific matters, I was not involved in day day-to-day operations. I was involved in specific things that Mr. Altman asked me to do. As Mr. Roelle stated earlier today, in fact--if I may just finish, Senator-as Mr. Roelle stated earlier today, the Treasury peo- ple were involved in policy issues. Policy issues are within in province of the oversight board. The oversight board has the authority to utilize personnel, whether on a reimbursable or other basis. So, from my perspective, as I thought about it, the amount of time that I felt that I was actually spending in other than policy matters was small.