August 1, 1994 - Part 7
August 1, 1994 - Part 7
(20:25:22) Ms. HANSON. Absolutely. When Ms. Kulka came on board, every decision, every discussion, should have been between Mr. Altman and Ellen Kulka. The problem, sir, was that Mr. Altman bad a limited number of hours in his day, just like we all do, and he ph ically was unable to interface with all of the people that be needed to. What tended to happen, and as some of my testimony indicates people were called, Treasury people, to get information to Mr. Alt! man and Mr. Altman would talk with Treasury people to give infor- mation to the RTC. It was a difficult situation and, frankly, nobody was very happy about it, but it was work that needed to be done and we aid it. Senator BRYAN. Perhaps it's a hybrid that we need to revisit. I note that my time is up. Let me just-I've been critical in some of my observations, but I think we need to put this in some perspective as well. As I see the record, as I read it, and as I bear the testimony, I think, although a number of errors in judgment were made, in the final analysis the record is clear that neither the President, nor anybody in this Administration, did, in fact, interfere with the RTC insofar as its referral process or any investigative aspect relating to Whitewater. I think that that is important for me to say as well as being critical. I yield back to the Chair. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Bryan. Again yielding on the Republican side, I'm following the instruction of Senator D'Amato as to where be wants their time block to go, and be wants it to be assigned to Senator Gramm. Senator GRAMM. Ms. Hanson, this is the last time that we're going to get to bear from you, and I want to be sure we have all the relevant questions asked, I guess it is obvious, from everything we've heard, that the September 29, 1993, meeting was the first meeting that you ever had with the White House about this subject? Ms. HANSON. That's correct. Senator GRAMM. I think this is a very important point, did Mr. Altman tell you to have that meeting? Ms. HANSON. Yes, sir. Senator GRAMM. Did you, ever 'hold a meeting with Mr. Nussbaum, or anybody that high at the White House, without specific instructions from Mr. Altman to have such a meeting? Ms. HANSON. On a subject like this, sir, no. Senator GRAMM. So it would have been totally out of the realm of possibility that you would have gone over to the White House to talk to the President I s Counsel, about a subject like this, without 151 Mr. Altman having said to you, "Ms. Hanson, go over there and talk to the people at the White House"---as it turned out, there were a whole bunch of them there. There is no possibility that you would have ever done that without Mr. Altman's explicit, direct instructions? Ms. HANSON. As I sit here, sir, I can't recall every conversation that I have ever had with anyone in the White House, but, certain on an issue like this one, I would not have done it without Mr. Altman's authorization. Senator GRAMM. We know since--and you have seen it and you've forgotten writing it and, believe me, I forget lots of letters I sign every day, so I'm not trying to make a big point out of it, but we know that, on September 30, 1993, you sent Mr. Altman a memo in which you say that you have spoken to the Secretary, and that you've talked to Mr. Nussbaum and Mr. Sloan. So Mr. Altman told you to go. To the best of your knowledge, given that you looked at the memo, it had your signature on it, and it the kind of memo you would have written regarding subjects that you would have written memos on, to the best of your knowledge, having seen this memo, your testimony is, that he not only told you to go, but that you gave him hard copy that you had gone! Ms. HANSON. That's how I interpret that memo, yes, sir. Senator GRAMM. At the meeting on October 14, 1993-this is the second fall meeting-did Roger Altman tell you to go to that meeting, or did you tell him you were going to that meeting? Ms. HANSON. I don't recall discussing that meeting with Mr. Altman. Senator GRAMM. Is it likely you would have gone to the White House for this meeting without telling him? Ms. HANSON. I believe-it was my understanding, sir, that meeting was simply to discuss press inquiries that were being received at the Treasury. I was asked to go by Mr. Steiner, Mr. DeVore, or both of them, both senior Treasury officials, and I wouldn't necessarily have gotten-sought specific permission from Mr. Altman to do that.