August 1, 1994 - Part 6
August 1, 1994 - Part 6
(19:05:19) Senator KERRY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Hanson, I think you should know that the concerns expressed by the Senator from Texas are shared by all the Members of the Committee, and I think that there is a very deep concern here about-particularly in light of Senator D'Amato's statement about a conversation the night before-about the candor of that statement. We're, obviously, going to pursue that further. I'd like to go to another area that I think is as central as the area that the Senator from Texas was asking about. I notice, from your curricula, that you've bad a significant amount of legal experience and a terrific career, ranging from work in probation and as a legal defender and in a private law firm, a distinguished private law firm. But you've never served as a regulatory lawyer or as a lawyer responsible for regulatory oversight. Is that correct? Ms. HANSON. No, sir, I have not. Senator KERRY. It strikes me that there is, in this series of events, perhaps confusion that inadvertently overtook you and the Treasury Department with respect to which bat you were wearing, at what point in time, whether you were representing Mr. Altman as Counsel to the Treasury or whether you were representing him as he played out his role for the RTC. It troubles me greatly-let 131 me ask you, were you aware that the criminal referrals were confidential? Ms. HANSON. Yes, sir, and I believe I acted in accordance with the confidentiality requirements. Senator KERRY. You knew the RTC had a procedure with respect to keeping it confidential, other than the possibility of leaks? I mean, the procedure of the RTC was to maintain confidentiality because, after all, they are merely referrals to the Justice Department, and any name in them could indeed wind up in somebody's reputation being injured, so confidentiality is critical. Ms. HANSON. Yes. Senator FERRY. You only learned about that in your capacity of the RTC hat. Is that not accurate? Ms. HANSON. I learned about it in my capacity as the General Counsel of the Treasury. Mr. Altman asked Senator KERRY. Would the General Counsel of the Treasury normally be told about RTC procedures of criminal referrals? Ms. HANSON. Mr. Altman asked Senator KERRY. Would you answer my question? Would they normally Ms. HANSON. No, they would not. Senator KERRY. Was this the first criminal referral you were ever told about? MS. HANSON. I knew about other criminal referrals, none involving insolvent thrifts. Others, involving personnel action. Senator KERRY. Did you receive telephone calls from the RTC notifying you of other criminal referrals? Ms. HANSON, Not to my recollection. Senator FERRY. This is the only one the RTC notified you about? Ms. HANsON. As it relates to insolvent thrifts, yes, sir. Senator KERRY. Did you never sense, as a lawyer, a responsibility that you had gained information only in your regulatory capacity, but you were, in fact, imparting it to people who, in one form or another, fell under that regulatory capacity? Ms. HANSON. Sir, it's my understanding that the RTC is not a regulator. The RTC, in the capacity in which it was acting Senator KERRY. It has the power of subpoena-----Ms. HANSON. It does have the power of subpoena. Senator KERRY. The power of bringing criminal referrals, the power of bringing civil suits, and you don't call it a regulator? ~ Ms. HANSON. It's not my understanding that it is a regulator, sir. It does have those powers, you're absolutely right, but I-my complication of that information was solely or a governmental purpose, and the Office of Government Ethics has so concluded itself. Senator KERRY. I'm not sure I agree with their assessments, I Might add to you. I've read it very closely, and the assessment of the memo that went to Mr. Altman talks about legal requirement, and is based strictly on a legal finding. But ethics, conflict of intresst and propriety hang on appearances that go well beyond legal requirements. That is, undoubtedly, what brought you, Secretary of the ~ Treasury Bentsen, Ms. Kulka, and Mr. Ryan all to conclude that Mr. Altman ought to recuse himself, is it not? HANSON. No, sir. 132 Senator KERRY. You didn't think there was potential conflict here beyond legal? Ms. HANSON. Mr. Altman was given a written opinion ultimately, oral initially, and then written opinion, by the ethics officers, stat- ing that his recusal was not mandated by ethics, law, or regulation. If I just might finish, sir, and it went on to say that the appearance issue has to be decided -the standard for determining whether there's an improper appearance is decided on the basis of a rea- sonable person in possession of all the facts and circumstances,