August 1, 1994 - Part 6
August 1, 1994 - Part 6
(17:59:45)(Beginning of tape #10061) Senator SHELBY. No, did he use that word, that phrase? Ms. HANSON. As I've stated, I don't recall the specifies of the conversation but that was the purpose of my task. Senator SHELBY, Did you make some notes about this for your records? Ms. HANSON. No. Senator SHELBY. Did you make some notes about this conversation? Ms. HANSON. With Mr. Altman? Senator SHELBY. Yes. Ms. HANSON. Not to my recollection. Senator SHELBY There is nothing you recollect from your notes about that conversation? Ms. HANSON. No, sir. (18:00:13) Senator SHELBY. I want to ask you this. Did you ever, ever think it was improper, as General Counsel, to brief the White House on something from the RTC that was basically confidential, something of this importance, dealing with a Justice Department-a referral to the Justice Department involving criminal behavior, possible criminal behavior? Ms. HANSON. Sir, I knew Senator SHELBY. I'm not talking about now, but before. (18:00:53)(Tape #10060 ends) Ms. HANSON. The conversation that I had with Mr. Nussbaum related to press inquiries that he was likely to receive. He was bound by the ethics regulations, and, in fact, was the Chief Ethics 115 Officer for the Office of the President. I was bound by the ethics rules as well. It never occurred to me that he would use that information for any purpose other than the governmental purpose that I intended it to be used for. Senator SHELBY. As General Counsel there at the Treasury and also working with the RTC in that role, did it ever occur to you that the information, once it left the RTC, could be left for many purposes, or could be leaked past the White House? Ms. HANSON. I was under the impression, and, in fact, I turned out to be right, that the information was going to be leaked. It was leaked out of the RTC to a number of news reporters. Senator SHELBY. Ms. Hanson, did you ever, ever check with Treasury or RTC ethics officers before meeting with the White House? Ms. HANSON. I didn't have to do that. I was familiar with the ethics rules. I understood how they operated. I understood that I was doing this for a governmental purpose, a proper governmental purpose, Senator SHELBY. Have you had second thoughts on that? Ms. HANSON. Excuse me? Senator SHELBY. Have you had second thoughts on that? Ms. HANSON. No. The Office of Governmental Ethics has said the same thing. Senator SHELBY. In your meeting at the White House, this has been touched on in your deposition and here, too, I suppose, but could you tell us for the record, again, what you basically told Mr. Nussbaum and the other gentleman. There was someone else there, too. Ms. HANSON. Mr. Sloan. Senator SHELBY, Mr. Sloan. Ms. HANSON. As I stated, I don't recall the specifics of the conversation. I don't recall exactly what I said. I Senator SHELBY. Did you take notes with you when you went down there? Ms. HANSON. I don't recall that I did. Senator SHELBY, You don't recall whether you took notes down there and you don't recall the specific conversation, but you do recall briefing him regarding the RTC information that was imparted to you? Ms. HANSON. That's right. Senator SHELBY. But, of your own recollection, you don't remember any of it now? Is that what you're saying to the Committee? Ms. HANSON. I don't remember, specifically, what I told him. Senator SHELBY. Could you, generally tell us what you told him? Ms. HANSON. Going back to Mr. Sloan's notes-which was a question I was asked Senator SHELBY. Are you referring to Mr. Sloan's notes now? Ms. HANSON. I'm referring to Mr. Sloan's notes of September 30, 1993. In looking at Mr. Sloan's notes, they do not refresh my recollection of having had a conversation with him on that date. There Is some information in here that I don't recognize, but the bulk of the information in Mr. Sloan's notes is what I recall having been told by Mr. Roelle. Senator SHELBY. Do you differ with his notes in any way? 116 Ms. HANSON. There are some things in here I don't remember. Senator SHELBY. What do you, differ with? Ms. HANSON. As I say, I don't remember. Some of the things in here I don't remember. I don't remember, for example, the water Co. I just don't remember that. Senator SHELBY. Yes ma'am. Ms. HANSON. The bulk of what is here is my recollection of. what I was told by Mr Roelle. Senator SHELBY. Do you have any reason-although you might not remember everything about what transpired in the meeting, do you have any real reason to differ with his notes? Ms. HANSON. No, no, sir. Senator SHELBY. Ms. Hanson, did you check with the Treasury' ethics officers before the February 2, 1994, White House meeting." I asked you, and you said no. Was that right? Ms. HANSON. I thought you asked about the September meeting. Senator SHELBY. Ok the first one. Did you check with the White House-did you check with the Treasury ethics officers before the February 2, 1994, White House meeting? Ms. HANSON. Yes, I did. Senator SHELBY. You did. What did they tell you, if anything? Ms. HANSON, We discussed, generally, the topics that Mr. Altman intended to discuss. Senator SHELBY. Did they talk to you about the propriety of the meeting and the perception of it? Did you go into that?