August 1, 1994 - Part 3
August 1, 1994 - Part 3
(14:29:15) Hearing resumes: The CHAIRMAN. We invite the witnesses to come back to the witness table. 69 Let me say to all of you, I know it's been a long morning and it's difficult to be here for that length of time. We're sensitive to that and I think we'll be able to finish up in a reasonable amount of time now that we've resumed. There are a few Senators that have some remaining questions for you, so we'll try to work through those. When we finish, it would be my intention to take a late afternoon lunch break, a half hour or thereabouts. I'll set the time exactly when we finish. When we complete that, we'll have Ms. Hanson in this afternoon, take her statement, and proceed with questions in her instance. Senator Boxer, let me yield to you now. Senator BOXER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me say, since this is my last round, I appreciate the witnesses' candor with us, You have told us what you believe and you've said it straight from the shoulder. We can't expect any more of you than that. I feel very good that you're the kind of people you are. To go back to had little discussion with Mr. Katsanos over this Early Bird, I would just give you-you didn't ask me for this-but just a little bit of my own experience as a reporter. Many times when I was working on a story, the result was it didn't pan out. Sometimes you start on a story, you ask a lot of questions just to get some light in somebody's eye, and the thing never materializes. If somebody repeats certain accusations you make, by way of a question or whatever else, it could really do damage. So I would urge you-and I would address this to Mr. Ryan more than you, because you work for him. That's my understanding. Is that correct? Mr. KATsANos. That is correct. Senator BOXER. Since, presumably, only six people get this, I would just do a little E-mail and mark it confidential if there's something they need to know about. I think a lot of this stuff is just rumor and garbage and I don't think it serves the taxpayers to be spending our money in that way. It reminds me, we all know that it doesn't feel great to wake up in the morning and see a press story. I mean, gosh, we're elected by the people. We don't want to see a bad press story. But if we or our staff spent our waking hours printing up what might be said by the press or what we might read, we wouldn't get our work done. Therefore, I would urge that we give this thing a little burial. That's my suggestion. I nave a question for Mr. Ryan, Ms. Kulka, and Mr. Roelle, and I think it's just a yes or no. I'll start with Mr. Ryan and work down through the three of you. Did Mr. Altman or Ms. Hanson ever ask for details about the content of RTC criminal referrals or the civil investigation of Madison Guaranty? Mr. RYAN. No. Ms. KULKA. No, Senator. Mr. ROELLE. No. Senator BOXER. Did Mr. Altman or Ms. Hanson ever ask for information on the progress of the criminal referrals or on the status of the RTC civil investigation of Madison? Mr. RYAN. Not to me, no. Senator BOXER, Ms. Kulka? 70 Ms. KULKA. No, other than to make sure that it was-the civil investigation was ongoing, that was the only information asked for or received. Senator BOXER. Mr. Roelle? Mr. ROELLE. No. Senator BOXER. Did any White House staff ask you for details about the content of RTC criminal referrals or the civil investigation of Madison Guaranty? Mr. RYAN. No, Senator. Ms. KULKA. No. Mr. ROELLE. No. Senator BOXER. Have any of you been pressured by the White House staff to take certain action on or come to certain conclusions about the Madison Guaranty case, either criminal or civil? Mr. RYAN, No. Ms. KuLKA. No. Mr. ROELLE, No. Senator BOXER. The reason I wanted to ask those questions for the American people, was because I think that when we're looking at the substance of this investigation ' it's important to note Mr Chairman, that none of these witnesses-actually, we have in the case of Ms. Kulka, she's in charge of the lawsuit-but none of them have stated they had any pressure brought upon them, in any way, on either the criminal or the civil side of this investigation. I think it's important for us to ferret where the pressure points were on the RTC. They certain] weren't coming from the White had House, or from Mr. Altman or Ms. Hanson, as we can tell fro these witnesses, who I have no reason to believe were not telling us the truth, nor do I think my Republican friends believe that to be the case. So, here we have witnesses stating very clearly that no pressure was put on them, vis-a-vis the substance of these investigations. As I look at where the pressure points are, maybe we can take the issue of the hiring of Mr. Stephens. He was certainly a con-' controversial appointment, given his record of on-the-record criticisms of this President. I read them myself. They're pretty harsh. He has every right to' make those, but the fact is, this is the man who was hired via Pillsbury. Ms. Kulka, am I correct in asking you, in suggesting that you have stated to the Committee that no pressure was put on you to dismiss Mr. Stephens once be was hired, Is that correct? Ms. KuLKA, That's correct. Senator BOXER. No one asked you to fire Mr. Stephens or in any way change the hiring of Pillsbury? Ms. KULKA. That's correct. Senator BOXER. Is that correct, Mr. Ryan, from your standpoint? Mr. RYAN. That's correct. Senator BOXER. All right. We bad no pressure put on either of these areas. In my, view, there was a lot of talking, too much talking going on, vis-a-vis the Early Bird, within the RTC and you don't even know who leaked a lot of this. As I understand it, Mr. Ryan, you're going to see who's been leaking some of this information. Is that correct? Mr. RYAN. That's correct.