August 1, 1994 - Part 2
August 1, 1994 - Part 2
(13:20:50) Senator HATCH. Do you recall having a telephone conversation with Ms. Hanson on Saturday, February 5, 1994? Ms. KuLKA. I don't recall the date of any specific conversations, sir. Senator HATCH. But you did have a conversation with her at or near that time? Ms. KuLKA. That's quite likely. Senator HATCH. According to Ms. Hanson's deposition, she telephoned you at home on Saturday, February 5, 1994. Outside of the actual date, do you remember her calling you at home? Ms. KuLKA. I remember her calling me at home. Senator HATCH. Do you recall that conversation? Ms. KULKA, I don't know if I can identify the contents of the conversation with the place, sir, but if you tell what-I'll be happy to tell you whether I know the substance of what you would like to hear about it. Senator HATCH. Let's go to that and see what we can do here. During this conversation, you and Ms. Hanson discussed the Special Counsel's charter, and whether the charter's reference to giving Mr. Fiske civil jurisdiction could be read to cover the RTC's civil investigation. Do you remember that? Ms. KuLKA, Yes. 53 Senator HATCH. Is it not true that during the discussion or conversation you discussed an earlier discussion you had with Special Counsel Fiske? Ms. KULKA. I discussed a reference in that context. Senator HATCH. The conversation you bad with Fiske concerned the scope of his investigation and whether or not he was interested in pursuing the RTC civil litigation. Is that right? Ms. KuLKA. Not quite, sir. If I may, I would be happy to tell you-I made contact with Mr. Fiske shortly after he was appointed, to express our desire to cooperate and coordinate. We were discussing the timetable in which the RTC was operating under with the February 28, 1994, statute of limitations. He said , "I would not like to be in your position at this moment." From that, I took it that be was rather glad that he did not have our aspect of the litigation. Senator HATCH. If you recall, isn't it true, you then informed Ms. Hanson that it was your impression from your discussion or your casual conversation with Mr. Fiske that he did not intend to pursue RTC civil matters? Ms. KuLKA. No, sir, if I might give you the context of that conversation. Ms. Hanson asked me if it might be more effective and maybe easier for the RTC to function if Mr. Fiske did take that over, if he was likely to do it, and if he could do it. I think I told her it was a little more complicated because, although Mr. Fiske had clearly been given civil as well as criminal jurisdiction, he only had that which Ms. Reno could delegate to him. In our case, we had independent litigating authority at our agency, and we could use the Justice Department, therefore, Ms. Reno could delegate what we had assigned to them or we could litigate it ourselves. But, I didn't think that, based on my understanding without doing research, he had more than Ms. Reno could assign, and we bad the initial choice of how our litigation was handled. Senator HATCH. Ms. Hanson asked you to let Mr. Fiske take over the case? Ms. KuLKA. No, she just asked me what I thought about it and that's what I told her. I told her I didn't know if he would be enthusiastic about it based on the comment I've described to you. Senator HATCH. Was it your view that this information you discussed with her was confidential? Ms. KuLKA. I didn't have any view. I didn't make any assumption about it. Senator HATCH. Ms. Hanson informed you that she had been called by Mr. Nussbaum, and that her call was being made pursuant to instructions from Mr. Altman? Ms. KuLKA. With respect to that issue? Senator HATCH. That's correct. Ms. KuLKA. No. Senator HATCH. February 5, the date Ms. Hanson believes this conversation occurred, was only 2 days after Ms. Hanson bad inquired about you providing a private briefing to the Clintons' attorney, Mr. Kendall. Is that right? Ms. KULKA. I don't know if it was a briefing, sir, but she asked me to contact him, yes. 54 Senator HATCH. Is it common for the RTC to discuss with someone outside the RTC the jurisdictional deliberations it is having with the Department of Justice as they relate to a specific case? Ms. KuLKA, I don't know what is common, sir. I only know what I've done since I've been there and I haven't had the occasion to do that. The CHAIRMAN. The question is would you do that? You turneddown that request, did you not? Ms. KULKA. Yes, but I didn't turn it down because I thought there was anything startling, sir, because at some point we would be contacting attorneys The CHAIRMAN. Why did you turn it down? Ms. KuLKA. I thought we hadn't focused on any particular individual It would be rash to do it. It would have an inappropriate appearance to either make people assume, if they became aware that the Clintons were going to be defendants, that that was the likelihood or that, in fact, we were popping the question earlier than we should and therefore doing something we would not do in the ordinary course. For those various reasons, I thought it was unwise to do that. Senator DODD. Mr. Chairman, just on that point, it's not uncommon for private attorneys to be in touch with the RTC? Ms. KULKA. Absolutely, sir. It's perfectly common along the process as you develop your information. You're getting information from various people, You're talking to them about it, and those are consistent with your role in terms of representative