August 1, 1994 - Part 2
August 1, 1994 - Part 2
(13:05:12) Senator DOMENICI. Might I ask one last question, Counselor Kulka? I'm just going to read as succinctly as I can what Harold Ickes said while being, deposed under oath. He was asked by Mr. Bennett, one of the counsels, to recall the subject and what was discussed and he said, "Go ahead." Mr. Bennett said "Guess, do your best." And in the second paragraph of the answer he says this: 'The purpose of this meeting. . ."-the February 2, 1994, meeting which you helped brief him on, to get him ready for that meeting, as I understand it, did you not? Ms. KULKA. I didn't brief Mr. Ickes on anything, sir. Senator DOMENIci. No, you helped brief Altman. Ms. KuLKA. I may have had a meeting with Mr. Altman before that date. Senator DOMENICi. But look, be says this: "The purpose of this meeting and the focus of this discussion was the amount of time in which he felt this investigation might be wrapped up," and said, at least in so many words that it "was his understanding that the investigation probably would not be concluded, that a determination could not be Me by the RTC's General Counsel as to whether there was a basis for a civil claim until the expiration of the statute of limitations, as applied to that particular investigation." From what I gather here, Harold Ickes is saying that Mr. Altman said that, I believe Jean Hanson says that. Are you telling us that you did not tell him, Mr. Altman, that you did not have a case ready to go by statute of limitations time? Ms. KULKA. No, I never said we would not have a case read to go, and I said, and I think anybody who brings a case on behalf of a plaintiff, whether it's a criminal case or a civil case, knows that the more time you have, the better the job often is that you can do. Furthermore, the bringing of a complaint, the filing of a civiliam-a civil complaint does not terminate the discovery period. In other circumstances, it merely commences it. Everybody knows that you don't have to have all of your information in place when You bring the complaint. You can continue your discovery and we would have continued our discovery if it was deemed to be necessary. That much I told Mr. Altman. Also, I clearly told Mr. Altman that we would put our selves in a position, to the best we could, where we would be able to file complaints as long as we were not violating Rule 11 and fil- ing bad faith complaints which were not based on fact or that were frivolous. If we couldn't do that we wouldn't be able to make a rec- But, if we could do that, we thought we could make 48 a, recommendation which might mean those complaints might get amended as further information came down, or it would just be put in through the process of the civil litigation Senator DOMENICI. Obviously, Mr. Altman will have the last chance to explain it. I thank the chair and thank the witnesses. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Murray. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR PATTY MURRAY Senator MURRAY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to follow UP on what Senator Boxer brought up be. cause I an confused Mr, Ryan, you answered her question saying that you spoke to a Senator or Senate staff about the issue of the statute of limitations. Mr. RYAN. I was present -at a meeting -in which the questions about when the statute of limitations expired were raised. Senator MURRAY. Was that, prior to the February 2, 1994, White House meeting? Mr. RYAN. I believe so. Let me see -- January 24, 1994. Senator MURRAY. Janua-ry 24, 1994. So, that was prior to Roger Altman's meeting with the IL staff February 2, 1994? Mr. RYAN That's correct. Senator MURRAY. Are you aware that RTC lawyers spoke by telephone with lawyers of Senator D'Amato's staff later that week? Mr. RYAN. That's my understanding. Senator MURRAY. Can you tell us what was discussed -in that phone conversation? Mr. RYAN. I can't. I'm merely aware that conversation took place. Senator MURRAY. But, from what you were saying to me, member of the Senator's staff knew the information about the statute of limitations and, indeed, as we all know here, confidentiality doesn't last very 'ion-. It could have been that the White House found out that information from the Senate before Roger Altman ever talked to them. Is that correct? A possibility? Mr. RYAN. I don't have any idea. Senator MURRAY. It is a possibility since that information was out there. The other discussion item that really had me concerned was leaks. I am one of those people who believes that the public should have all information. That is part of our responsibility. However, leaks cause consternation. You said the RTC is ail information sieve, I believe that's what you said. Mr, RYAN. I did. Senator MURRAY. Do you think, that leaks to the press might ac- tually work to hinder investigations?