Whitewater Hearings August 1, 1994 - Part 1
Whitewater Hearings August 1, 1994 - Part 1
(11:35:38) Senator SASSER. Right. Did you make any attempt to contact either the General Counsel for the Treasury Department, Ms. Hanson, or Secretary Altman to tell them, in your judgment, it might be unwise or even improper for Ms. Hanson to contact Mr. Nussbaum and tell him about these referrals that might be coming? Mr. ROELLE. I don't think that was the discussion. We weren't discussing the referrals. I had told Senator SASSER, Excuse me. You were just discussing the press leaks. Mr. ROELLE. Yes, sir, and it wasn't about the referrals, specifically. It was the fact that the referrals were now apparently public information, insofar as the press had them, and we had been told by inquiries from the press that it was likely to run in the next day's or the following day's newspapers. Senator SASSER. I guess the question I have then-I see my time is expired, Mr. Chairman, But, I guess the question I have is if these referrals were public knowledge-that is, the press had them and you thought they'd be in the press the next day-what was wrong with, in that instance, the General Counsel, Ms. Hanson, discussing it with Mr. Nussbaum, because they were going to be in the newspaper? Mr. RoELLE, I don't recall ever saying that I thought there was anything wrong with it. I think that, in most of these situations, it's not a matter of right and wrong. It's a matter of- Senator SASSER. Appearance? Mr. ROELLE. To me it is. But I come from a long history of being a regulator and dealing with these matters in absolute confidentiality. I think, in my testimony to your staff, I indicated that I was making no judgments as to the ethics standards or the law. It would just, in my judgment, had been better had nobody known about just, Senator SASSER. Would it have been better if the press had not known about it? Mr. ROELLE. Absolutely. Senator SASSER. All right. Thank you, Mr. Roelle. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Sasser. Senator Mack. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR CONNIE MACK Senator MACK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Roelle, you have previously testified that during his first staff meeting in March 1993, you spoke to Mr. Roger Altman, then Acting CEO of the RTC, regarding Madison Guaranty's first criminal referral. Is that correct? Mr. RoELLE. That's correct. Senator MACK. Drawing your attention to the fall of 1993, it was Your testimony that you informed Mr. Altman of the nine new Criminal referrals of Madison matters on September 24, 1993. Is that correct? Mr. ROELLE. I thought it was September 27, 1993. I'm not sure. But I did notify him, yes, sir. Senator MACK, All right. I think that, as we go through this, it might shed some light on the dates. 20 Mr. ROELLE. OK Senator MACK. In this conversation, that I just referred to, was it your understanding that Mr. Altman then made reference to you speaking to Jean Hanson about the nine new referrals? Mr. ROELLE. That's correct, sir. Senator MACK. So then, you bad a subsequent conversation to that with Ms. Hanson? Mr. ROELLE. Yes, Sir. Senator MACK. Do you have any idea when that conversation took place? Mr. ROELLE. The same day, sir. Senator MACK. This conversation with Ms. Hanson took place on September 27, 1993? Mr. ROELLE. I believe so, yes, sir. Senator MACK. Can you reconstruct your first conversation with Ms. Hanson for us? Mr. ROELLE. I think it would be instructive if I went over the whole conversation with Mr. Altman and Ms. Hanson, if that would be appropriate. Senator MACK. Did this take place on September 27, 1993? Mr. ROELLE. I believe they occurred on the same day, yes, sir. Senator MACK. Are you going to describe the conversation with Roger Altman and then a subsequent conversation with Ms. Hanson? Mr. ROELLE. Yes, I think that would put it in perspective. Senator MACK. Fine. Go ahead. Mr. ROELLE. I bad been notified that we had some criminal referrals going forward. I bad been notified on the previous evening. I inquired of the person that notified me what the nature of the criminal referrals was. He indicated that these referrals were going forward and it was on the Madison situation. He described them to me briefly. I said, "It sounds an awful lot like the previous criminal referral. Would you please check to see if it's not just the same one?" He said be would and would call me back the next day. He called me back. I indicated to him, OK, thank you very much. I'll have to brief Mr. Altman. I advised him to neither look right nor left, up or down, to proceed forward with these criminal referrals and to do it just like we would do it. Senator DODD. I'm sorry. Advised, who? I'm losing the names here.