Whitewater Hearings August 1, 1994 - Part 1
Whitewater Hearings August 1, 1994 - Part 1
(11:05:44) The CHAIRMAN. So, by the fact that you did not know he was going, he obviously didn't invite you to go with him. Is that correct? Ms. KULKA, That's correct. The CHAIRMAN. I want to read you a section of a deposition that Mr. Ickes gave to our Committee about this February 2, 1994, meeting to which Mr. Altman went. There's two or three parts to it, so bear with me here. This will be information that you will be hearing for the first time, I think, Mr. Ickes says the following: The purpose of this meeting on February 2, 1994, at the White House and the focus of Altman's discussion, was the relationship of the time that he felt this investigation might be wrapped up. He said, at least in so many words: That it was his understanding that the investigation probably would not be concluded and that a determination could not be made by the RTC's General Counsel as to whether there was the basis for a civil claim until after the expiration of the statute of limitations. Now that's a direct quote that I've just given you from Mr. Ickes. 'Later in his deposition, he was asked this question: With 8 respect to the information that the inquiry could probably not be wrapped up to re General Counsel's satisfaction, the inquiry about Madison could not be up the wrapped up to their satisfaction, before the statute of limitations would expire as far as you knew, was that public knowledge when he said it? This was the second question to Mr. Ickes, and be answered: I don't know whether it was public knowledge or not. I assume that it was. When you say public, did the public in general? No, I don't think it was. I don't know it was. But it was my assumption that this information was not known to public in general and probably very few people inside the Administration. 10 Is it fair to say that was not public information at that time? Ms. KULKA. It's fair to say that all of those statements are inaccurate if they are meant to be a report of anything I told Mr. Altman. They are directly contrary to the advice I gave Mr. Altman, The CHAIRMAN. He makes no reference to you here in his answers. Mr. Ickes is talking about-because you weren't at the meeting, he's talking about what was represented, as he remembers it, by Mr. Altman at the meeting. Ms. KULKA. Since I have no knowledge of what Mr. Altman said or what Mr. Ickes heard, or anyone else at that meeting, I can only tell you what I advised Mr. Altman, and that is not a reflection of it. The CHAIRMAN. Right. But the question I asked you was, was that information public information at the time? Ms. KuLKA. I'm sorry. I don't mean to argue with you, Senator, but that information, if you say that we wouldn't be able to form a decision about bringing a case, is not accurate. So, it wasn't public, but it wasn't so. It couldn't have been public or private because it was never the advice I gave or the position we were taking. The CHAIRMAN. I see. Ms. KULKA. I'm sorry. The CHAIRMAN. No. That's what we want to do, we want it to be as clear as we can make it here. Ms. KuLKA. Right. The CHAIRMAN. That's why these questions have to be asked and answered, so there's no question about it. We'll come back to that because Mr. Ickes, obviously, has given a different recollection of the events at that time, Senator D'Amato. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR ALFONSE M. D'AMATO Senator D'AMATO. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to maybe follow up on something. Ms. Kulka, in the February 1, 1994, meeting where you gave your briefing to Mr. Altman, do you recall who else was present? Ms. KULKA. I really don't recall. I think that Mr. Ryan was present, but I don't recall if anybody else was. Senator DAMAT0, Mr. Ryan, were you there? Mr. RYAN. I don't recall. Senator D'AMAT0, Was Benjamin Nye there? Do you recall Benjamin Nye? Ms. KuLKA. I don't recall. Senator D'AMAT0. I'm going to read you his testimony. Benjamin Nye is an assistant at the Treasury Department. Do you know Benjamin Nye? Ms. KuLKA. Yes, I do. Senator DAMAT0. What is his position? Ms. KULKA. I think be's an assistant or a special assistant to Mr. Altman. Senator D'AMAT0. He was at this meeting. I have a deposition here. I'll read you part of it. This is a question being put to Mr. Nye: Why don't you tell me, in your own words, what was discussed at the meeting? Answer: I believe it was a discussion about RTC issues, more generally. But one of the issues, I believe, was this question of procedurally, what Ellen Kulka should do or, you know, the questions she would face procedurally, on the Madison case. Question: One of those issues was whether an action should be commenced or not commenced? Answer: The issue, as I understand it, was, in light of the circumstances' the February 28, 1994, expiration of the statute of limitations, whether one should seek a tolling agreeing or drop cases or file suits based on what she deemed would be imperfect information. Question: What did Mrs. Kulka say about the imperfect, or the information at that point?