Capitol Journal - Abortion
Capitol Journal - Abortion
Capitol Journal - Abortion Back in studio Hodding Carter segues to earlier discussion with Representatives Christopher Smith (R - New Jersey) and Patricia Schroeder (D - Colorado) - the two Representatives have a heated discussion about current and future Congressional legislation involving abortion and what and why the American public feels about abortion
Capitol Journal - Abortion
10.02 Hodding Carter in studio The abortion question may or may not affect the 1986 elections but legislative decisions must be made earlier. We discussed prospects on the hill with two leaders in the fight. Republican Congressman Chris Smith of New Jersey and head of the pro-life caucus in the House and Democratic Representative Pat Schroeder of Colorado, a longtime leader of the pro-choice forces.
Capitol Journal - Abortion
10.24 Hodding Carter. Congressman Smith, where are we exactly in legislation as opposed to rhetoric on the Hill? Chris Smith (R - New Jersey). The Legislation is principally focused on denying funding for abortions. We have made significant gains over the last five years in the area of the federal employee s health benefits program, in the area of denying funds to those organizations that actively perform or promote abortions in the third world. These are all new gains that have been made in the last couple of years. Hodding Carter. But this year? Chris Smith (R - New Jersey). This year we went on the international front, the foreign front. I offered two amendments that did prevail. That tried to divest ourselves from the corrosive abortion in China. And the other amendment dealt with denying organizations like International Planned Parenthood Federation of London money if they get out of the abortion component.
Capitol Journal - Abortion
11.17 Hodding Carter. Is that description, the description of chipping away at the decision made 12 years ago in the Supreme Court? Is there a steady progress or an erosion of how you look at it on this front? Patricia Schroeder (D - Colorado) Well let s make it perfectly clear what s happened. First of all, there s been no federal funding for abortions for a long time or public funding of abortions. And where they re really going now, if you get through all the obfixation, where they re really going now is closing down family planning. Hodding Carter. How? Patricia Schroeder (D - Colorado). They re doing it by saying promote abortion . In other words there saying, any clinic that mentions to a woman that abortion is an option, therefore is promoting it, pushing it, driving it even though it is not federally funded. And therefore they cannot have their funding. This is very difficult for doctors working in those clinics and for professional people because if you have a woman who say is a health risk who has all sorts of other problems, you can t even tell her about one option which is a constitutional right. Or all your federal funding is denied even though none of that federal funding would go to abortion. So we re moving into a very extreme position. We re doing it internationally, domestically and it really was the U.S. policy that was articulated in Mexico City, on the International family planning policy and everybody was stunned, never thought it would be implemented and that s where we are today on Capitol Hill is implementing that policy.
Capitol Journal - Abortion
12.44 Hodding Carter. Now let me make sure of this though, you say that s where we are implementing it. On the domestic front has the legislation actually passed that implements that in the various planning clinics? Or are we where? Patricia Schroeder (D - Colorado). The legislation passed dealing with it internationally. So International Planned Parenthood can do it. We now have moves to do it internally domestically for low income families. Hodding Carter. And what s the status of that move? Chris Smith (R - New Jersey). It s pending. The appropriations committee and the full House have not taken it up yet. But, I think many I have found in talking to other members, most of them were not aware of that Planned Parenthood for instance runs the largest chain of abortion mills in the country, some 44 clinics. They performed in 1984 some 87,000 abortions. Very often they emphasize other aspects of their services, which most members including myself don t disagree with. Hodding Carter. Let me interrupt, sorry. Chris Smith (R - New Jersey). But we are trying to put a wall of separation between the termination of a life and prevention. Prevention, I don t think there is any problem with members on the Hill. It s the termination. Hodding Carter. Do you agree with that? Do you agree with that description? Patricia Schroeder (D - Colorado). I don t agree with that at all. I find it stunning that they make those arguments because it always seemed to me, first of all, there s an underlying message in what he s saying. And that message is that women really like abortions. I know of no woman, no woman who would use that as birth control. I think the birth control and family planning clinics are preventing abortions because they are giving people any other option. They are trying to show people how you can prevent unwanted pregnancies.
Capitol Journal - Abortion
14.16 Hodding Carter. Let me ask you is the process of undoing Roe going at a faster rate? Slower? Where are we now up on Capitol Hill? Chris Smith (R - New Jersey). I would suggest that we are moving much swifter than we have been in the past. The President has been able to put in several key positions, judicial appointments. Men and Women who respect the sanctity of life. There s an infrastructure that is developing throughout the country and among the federal courts that long time will help to further erode Roe v. Wade. Hodding Carter. But let me interrupt you. But what has happen to two major threats that I can recall not long ago were both a Constitutional amendment and statutory prohibition? Both devices as I see it aren t going somewhere at this point. Chris Smith (R - New Jersey). We have never had in the House or the Senate the 2/3rds majority for a constitutional amendment. The amendment is introduced, it is a talking point, hopefully at some point we ll be in a position where 2/3rds will be there. Constitutional amendments are very, very difficult to achieve. Patricia Schroeder (D - Colorado). And what they haven t been able to do, frontally, they ve done around the edges. I mean. Hodding Carter. But do you agree with this assessment that there is movement moving steadily to undo legislation. Patricia Schroeder (D - Colorado). Oh I do. And I see them moving towards even trying only fund natural family planning. There are many people who say that that they want to move eventually to that level which is really doing away with all family planning. It s way beyond Roe. It s way beyond Roe.
Capitol Journal - Abortion
15.41 Hodding Carter. But the status right now we are seeing still is a current running against Roe. Patricia Schroeder (D - Colorado). Yes, except in the elections. I think it s very important to point out that in the elections when they select the New England towns that the pro-life groups thought would clearly be for undoing Roe v. Wade, they voted the other way. 16.01 Hodding Carter. Is the message? Chris Smith (R - New Jersey). If I could comment on that. First of all, there were locally organized attempts to try and make a statement. In some referendums, including the one in Colorado last year, the people voted in a binding referendum to deny funds for abortion in Colorado, the Congresswoman s own state. And so when it really matters rather than in a non-binding sense of the area resolution, the people have really come down on the pro- Let me also say that Newsweek last year, ran a cover story - this year, in January - in which according to their poll by a margin of 58% that people were in favor of banning abortion except in cases of life and mother, rape, and incest.
Capitol Journal - Abortion
16.39 Hodding Carter. Let me not worry about the majority of American people. Let s talk about the majority up here on the Hill. What s the next step right here? Attaching it to continuing resolution? What are we going to do? Chris Smith (R - New Jersey). It s likely that that will be the route. It s the obvious route. That such amendments such as the Camp Amendment, Hatch Amendment since the Health and Human Services Appropriations bill has already passed both houses. That is no longer an available vehicle. It s very likely that s where it will be done. Patricia Schroeder (D - Colorado). And can I respond, because that may be where we re going on the Hill because people are very afraid of single issue groups, out in the electorate. But election after election, we have found even on the most extreme premise, Roe v Wade, not Family planning not the other issues, people have not supported repeal of that in conservative areas. He mentions my state. That resolution was written in a very, very unclear manner and afterwards 50% of the people found out they had voted the other way. I mean how very confusing. And I also think it s important to remind people that in America we don t have rights, Constitutional rights undone by the majority. Even if the election where going the other way, does that give people the right to dictate that no woman should ever have that right? Chris Smith (R - New Jersey). I think that what she is trying to say is precisely my point. The abolitionist certainly we not the majority. But they were right. We feel and the growing number of American people feel that the rights of the unborn is a basic fundamental human right and to deny that through soft poisoning and I think what more people need to do. Hodding Carter. I m going to have to let each person get a word in. Patricia Schroeder (D - Colorado). And I just want to say very clearly of course, I don t think any woman is advocating abortion. I think they are advocating family planning and the right to choice and the right to having their health considered too. Its two lives we re considering a woman and a child. That s a medical and private consideration under the constitution.
Capitol Journal - Abortion
18.28 Hodding Carter. Now let me ask one final question and that s it. We have, what I think, is quite a lot of confusion in the public, we have what both of you agree is a running change on the hill. And yet, Senator Weicker earlier in the program suggests that what you have and the largest issue of all, is what he called a Mexican standoff, in which there is not really yet a clear indication politically that you are not going to be able to undo the full thrust of it. Is that true or not true? Chris Smith (R - New Jersey). I would suggest that it is not true, that there is a chipping away. That the bottom line is the people know about abortion, the more they know realize what the procedures do to the child, the violence that is perpetrated upon the child, the more they will repel from it. People are basically good. I don t think that they can look at the remains of an aborted child and say this is some progressive step. Patricia Schroeder (D - Colorado). There also basically good and understand too that family planning is a way to prevent that whole horrible thing from happening to the mother or the child. And they also realize that family planning is here to stay - which a lot of the radical right to life says they want to get next. They do not approve of using those tactics to kill family planning programs and feel that this is part of a whole. Hodding Carter. I am very sorry to both of you but I am going to have to thank you, both Representative Schroeder, Representative Smith. Thank you for your time with us on Capitol Hill.