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Preview Casette 219058 shooting star flowers over the Meadow
Shooting Stars
Stars in field ***
August 4, 1994 - Part 5
(13:02:11)(tape # 10089 ends) On the 24th, that's the third consecutive day, headline: "Clinton Releases Files on Land Deal," and they were all given over to the Justice Department by the White House. On January 3rd, "Independent Counsel Urged an Arkansas Probe, GOP Leaders' Call Rebuffed." And the next day, "GOP Leaders Seek Counsel to Probe Clinton Investment." On the 4th of January, "Clintons Continue to Gather Land Deal Files." A painstaking disclosure process is described. So the White House is in the midst of gathering all the documents, pulling it together. On January 6th, "White House Hopes to Avoid Leaks of Clinton File." It's very important to understand that this entire thing came about through leaks. The law was broken. Someone in the RTC 333 broke the law 'and released confidentiality and there was a clear concern about the politics of this and what might happen. On January 6th, "A Subpoena Issued of the Clinton Files," and "The White House to Comply in the Savings and Loan Probe." On the 7th of January, "Attorney General Reno to Ask for Special Counsel in the Clinton Land Deal." I might add Attorney General Reno was obviously appointed by President Clinton. On January 8, "President's Lawyer Tried to Limit the Use of the Whitewater Files to Only the Justice Department." In the public domain, you have a reporting of the very item which was discussed in the conversations that were referred to earlier. So this was not secret. This was a public discussion at that point of the fact that the White House was justifiably concerned about leaks and politics with respect to this. On the 12th, nine Democrats joined in the call for a Special Counsel. And on the 13th, "President Clinton Sought a Special Counsel" and asked Janet Reno to name the Counsel on the land deals. Now this particular call by the Democrats occurred one day after the notice was made in the diary of Roger Altman. So all of this is the context within which Ms. Williams has testified that Hillary Clinton was totally consumed, pulling together all of these documents. So I'd simply want to make that context available because it's very easy to sit here antiseptically talking about these items that appear, but when you realize this incredible pressure and the consumption of making sure you're complying with the law, pulling together the documents, it seems to me that a characterization about "paralyzed," we don't know if that's exactly what was said or not said, but I assume from your earlier testimony, Ms. Williams, you said something to the effect that she was spending an inordinate amount of time with Counsel. Is that fair or not?
August 4, 1994 - Part 5
(13:30:40) Senator DOMENICI. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, let me explain to the Committee my absence the last 2 hours or so, My other responsibilities didn't stop when I took on this one, and I had an appropriations conference for matters very important to my State, and I've been absent, but I will nonetheless go very quickly on my questions, I think you all have covered most things. I would like to make one observation. I still have a great deal of difficulty understanding this whole business of recusal. It seems to me that on the one hand, there is ample evidence that it wasn't very important that Mr. Altman even stay on because he had de facto, somebody says, recused himself. On the other hand, there seems to be a huge amount of concern among a number of White House people as to why he would even consider recusing himself. And then people like yourself, Mack, say it's all up to him. Frankly, I wonder very much what that's all about. I don't know that I'm going to get the answer, but clearly before I'm finished, I hope I understand what that's all about. I do know that on February 2nd, there were still some very im- portant issues that could be decided by the head of the RTC. Clearly the White House has referred to that position as the decisionmaker with reference to the Whitewater situation, the statute of limitations and whether tolling agreements would be sought. He may even have been the decisionmaker on whether or not a suit would be filed; some say there was ample evidence, some say there wasn't enough evidence. So he was in a decisionmaking position. Now, having said that, I then find that there's interest in the White House as to who knew that he was going to recuse himself, and I want to ask Ms. Williams a question. On February 3rd, Ms. Hanson testified that she arrived at the meeting at your office shortly after, Mr. Altman left. Ms. Hanson testified that she spoke with Mr. Ickes at that point in your office. Ms. Hanson testified that she was asked by Ickes how many people knew that she had recommended recusal. She answered just a few people and Ickes said good. Now, according to Hanson, Ickes then said it would be good if he did not disclose to others that she had recommended he recuse himself, "she" being Hanson. Now, Mr. Eggleston conferred and agreed that this is what occurred. Ms. WILLIAMS. I'm sorry, sir. I didn't hear the last. Senator DOMENICI. He agrees that this is what occurred, what I've just described. Now in your deposition, you do not recollect these events which occurred at your office in your presence. Does the testimony of Mr. Eggleston who now confirms that that took place, and of Ms. Hanson, who also says it took place, does that refresh your recollection? Ms. WILLIAMS. Sir, it does not. Let me ask you, if I may, did Mrs. Hanson say-I'm sorry. Did Mrs. Hanson say that she was talking to me? Senator DOMENICI. No, it was in your office. Ms. WILLIAMS. OK, Senator DOMENICI. And I believe the testimony is that you were there. 342 MS. WILLIAMS. OK Senator DOMENICI. So I'm not saying they were talking to you, but it was in your office and in your presence. This discussion of how many people know and it's good that nobody else finds out, don't tell anyone, you don't recall that, as I understand it. MS. WILLIAMS. No, sir, If I had recalled it, I would have said so in my deposition. Senator DOMENICI. So you stand by your testimony that you don't recollect that incident? Ms. WILLIAMS. No, sir, I do not. Senator DOMENICI. One last one. You testified earlier that on February 2nd, Mr. Altman described-and I'll quote you, this Is your quote- described "the process by which President and Mrs. Clinton could be asked to waive the statute of limitations."
August 4, 1994 - Part 5
(13:05:44) Ms. WILLIAMS. In my opinion, she was spending time with Counsel that should have been spent on Health Care. Senator KERRY. Well, is it fair to say she was distracted from the rest of the agenda? Ms. WILLIAMS. She was not distracted, but I believe that we could have been much more proactive if the time that she was spending on answering questions, press inquiries and on being talked to by her personal lawyer were spent proactively on Health Care. Senator KERRY. Well, I understand that. But look, it seems to me that if she's spending a lot of hours on something that she didn't want to spend time on, she's distracted. Ms. WILLIAMS. That would be a fair characterization. Senator KERRY. I mean the President himself announced, and here is The Wall Street Journal article saying the President is backing down in an effort to protect the rest of his agenda. I mean, he was aware that this was invading the time and energy of the White House and he needed to deal with it. And dealing with it is precisely what was mentioned in Mr. Altman's diary where he says, "If we don't solve this within the next two days you don't have to worry about her schedule on Health Care"; correct? 334 Ms. WILLIAMS. I'm sorry. Could you repeat that, please? Senator KERRY. "If we don't solve this"-this is reading from Roger Altman's diary--"If we don't solve this within the next two days, you don't have to worry about her schedule on Health Care." Ms. WILLIAMS. And the question is, sir? Senator KERRY. The question is wasn't this in fact solved within the next 2 days when the President appointed a Special Counsel and turned all the documents over to the Justice Department? Ms, WILLIAMS. Yes, I guess to some degree it was. Senator KERRY. So I mean this, it seems to me, is sort of an accurate reflection of the state of affairs at the time and nothing inconsistent with what you have testified of what was in fact happening at that point in time. Ms. WILLIAMS. Well, sir, if I can just make a brief point here. The question with respect to the diary was whether or not I had had these conversations with Mr. Altman, and 1 felt in responding to the questions I had to say in all honesty that, to the best of my recollection, I did not have these conversations with him. With respect to what the mood of the White House was or whether or not his diary actually reflects the mood, I won't-I won't speak to that, but I will say that the questions were did you have these conversations with Mr. Altman, and I must say that to the best of my recollection, I did not. That is not to say that Mr. Altman could have been reading the newspapers, looking at what was in the public domain and coming to these things himself. I am saying that I did not have these conversations with Mr. Altman, to the best of my recollection. Senator KERRY. At this meeting on Health Care, you made no comment to him at all about the degree to which Hillary Clinton was wrapped up in this or involved in it or couldn't be involved in the Health Care schedule? Ms. WILLIAMS. What I said and excuse me, what I said was, to the best of my recollection, I did not have these specific conversations with Mr. Altman as reflected by his words and his writings, but what I also did volunteer to this Committee was that I had been saying to anyone who would listen that I believed Whitewater was a distraction from the President's agenda and I did not understand how 17 years of Arkansas history was related to feeding people, clothing people, giving people Health Care. I was outspoken. I said that. I said it over and over. Senator KERRY. And you might have said it to Mr. Altman? Ms. WILLIAMS, It is possible he could have heard me say that. Senator KERRY. Thank you very much. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Kerry. Senator D'AMATO. Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Senator D'Amato, I want to just also indicate Senator Moseley-Braun has not yet had a chance and will want to take one. Senator D'AMATO. Same thing with Senator Domenici. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Domenici, you've not had a round yet either, have you? We have two Members that need to do that. Senator D'Amato. Senator D'AMATO. Mr. Chairman, I'm going to yield. I want to, make an observation. 335 I think Senator Kerry has done us a great service in putting forth the fact that all of those things were in the public domain. And the matters
Riots Shake Panama
Long-simmering resentments erupt among the students in Panama as they voice their protest over U.S. policies in the Canal Zone. The trouble began when a group of American high school pupils flew an American flag without the Panamanian flag by its side. Native students stormed the school and before the rioters were brought under control more than a score were dead, including four U.S. soldiers. Panama suspended relations with the U.S. while an inter-American Committee acts to resolve the difficulties. Panama Students in Panama erupt the army is called in, soldiers holding their rifles on the students to keep them back. MS - The soldiers and the students face each other, you can see some of the students verbally sound off to the soldiers. MS - The police, students and the military are throwing rocks at each other, one of them set off a tear gas bomb. MCUS - Students riot and lute at night, some of them are caught and handcuffed. MS - Night time, students turning over a van, then they start it on fire. MES - Students running down the street.
New Saigon Regime: Civilian Premier Rules South Vietnam
Two weeks of rioting and demonstrations in Saigon have brought about another shift in the regime of South Vietnam. Premier Khanh is forced to resign as President a week after assuming that office and dictatorial powers. Dr. Nguyen Oanh, who was educated at Harvard, is assuming the office to head a civilian rule reporting to a military triumvirate. Internal strife again threatens South Vietnam in her war to the death with the Communist rebels. Crowded Saigon street, people everywhere. Students walking and on bikes. Students carrying a flag. Students protesting and there's a crowd of people, citizens just holding back and watching. Buddhist priest walking in protest carrying a picture of a slain young girl. Saigon troops called in to keep the order. Dr. Nguyen Oanh, part of a civilian regime reporting to a military triumvirate. Camera panning - Dr. Nguyen Oanh and his appointed civilian regime.
Men's Fashions
Let cheers ring out, men, the millennium is here - a fashion show for us alone! Throw off the old - it's on with the new. At Cologne, Germany, European designers unveil what they would like the male to wear. For example, knickers are back from hiding on the Scottish Moors and they have formal wear that you have to zip yourself into. Next week - equal time for the ladies. Two men unloading huge chest. A man model wearing a straw hat with a black band. A plaid hat worn by a gentlemen smoking a pipe. His sports jacket matches the hat he's wearing. Another male model wearing another straw hat with a dark band and once more a jacket to match, and he is really debonair carrying a walking stick. Model wearing a knitted cap with a puff ball on top, a tailored jacket with matching knickers with big side pockets. Tuxedo trousers, zipper up the side, the cumber bun is sewn on to the pants, a ruffled shirt with a black velvet bow tie. A young male model is wearing lounging pajamas. Model puts on a derby hat or a bowler, the suit jacket is longer than usual.
Little Leaguers strut their stuff
The Little League World Series in Williamsport, Pennsylvania, is a thriller as Staten Island's pitch, Dan Yaccarino, pitches a no-hit, no-run game against Monterrey, Mexico. The New York hurler allows only one man to get on base and also hits a home-run as they win the game, 4 to 0. The stands, the people and the playing field for Little League Baseball. Spectators, kids, moms and dads. Little League player talking with his coach. Boys cheering on their buddies sitting in the stands. Pitcher throwing the ball and the hitter struck out. Little League Baseball Fans. The pitcher throws the ball and the batter lands it for a homerun. The Staten Islanders hit their second home run. Staten Islanders score their third home run. Danny pitches a perfect game and the Staten Islanders win, everyone (dads) come running on to the field. Little League World Champs holding up their banner 1964.
Movie Premiere: New Comedy Draws Florida Crowds
Film star Paula Prentiss stops traffic in Miami as she leads a parade of beauty contestants. "Miss Fort Lauderdale" -- Beverly Sternberg, is chosen as "Florida's Favorite Girl" as the Rock Hudson - Paula Prentiss romantic comedy "Man's Favorite Sport?" has its world premiere. Miami, Florida A convertible, driving down the streets of Miami, Florida with Paula Prentiss sitting high looking over the top of the windshield. MCUS - Another car following Paula's car wearing their 1960 bee hive and poof hair dos. MS - Paula Prentiss sitting on the top of the back seat. She to is wearing a poof hair do. MS - All the beauty Queens are sitting on a tourist tram pulled by a golf cart. CUS - A Hollywood type search light. MS - The marquee on the show reads; World Premiere: Rock Hudson, Paula Prentiss "Man's Favorite Sport".
August 4, 1994 - Part 5
(13:10:18) Now Mr. Altman tells us under oath-Mr. Altman says under oath that his diaries accurately reflected his discussions with you, Maggie Williams. He said his duties-his diaries included entries which had historical significance. In other words, this wasn't just a collection of things. They had historical significance and were intended to be accurate. Now I'm going to ask you a question. Are you saying that Mr. Altman's testimony is inaccurate? Ms. WILLIAMS. Sir, what I'm saying to you is I am also under oath here and as I have said before, I do not have a recollection of these conversations. Senator DAMATO. So then he may have been accurate and he testifies to us that they were written for historical significance and intended to be accurate. Now you say you don't have a recollection. MS. WILLIAM& No, it is not now that I say Senator D'AMATO. I don't mean to be well, you tell me. Ms. WILLIAMS. No, it is not now that I have said. I have consistently said even to Mr. Altman himself that I do not have a recollection of having any of these conversations with you. Senator D'AMATO. I thank you, Senator GRAMM. Mr. Chairman, let me try to clarify here. I don't think anybody is trying to make any big deal out of this thing, but here's the point. You have a person like Mr. Altman, who is writing in a confidential diary that he assumes at the time is never going to be read by anybody, and he says, not that he read something in the newspaper, but that on Whitewater, "Maggie told me that Hillary Rodham Clinton was paralyzed by it." Twice under oath he's gone back and verified that entry. Obviously, the natural thing to wonder is why in the world would anybody make up that entry, which they never thought anybody would read, and then at risk of perjury defend it twice. The difficulty we have is to square that likelihood with the recollection of someone who says I don't go around talking about the lady I work for. Ms. Williams, I assume if you did make that statement it would be a pretty extraordinary conversation, and obviously Mr. Altman thought this one was. But that's where the confusion is coming from, It's just one of these occasions where you have two people, and they have two different stories. Let me say, Mack, I want to ask you a question, and it's something I'm confused about. I've tried to go back and put all this together and understand what was going on. I read these internal diaries, which I give greater credence to, because people wrote them from their heart. They assumed they were never going to be read. When we say things publicly, we know they are going to be read and, as humans, we all have the tendency to at least put things in the best light for us, if Dot put them in a light that is brighter than the sun. In any case, all through this period we have these references in these diaries about intense pressure that Altman was under from 336 the White House, that he had been told by the White House that stepping aside in the Madison investigation was "unacceptable," These are powerful words that people generally don't make up or confuse with other words. Last night, the President brought into this discussion a whole new perspective. When he said, "The only thing that upset me'-- this is about Altman's deciding to take himself out of the Madison" Guaranty investigation---- "The only thing that upset me was that I did not want to see him stampeded into it." Here is the point. We're reading what Mr. Altman is saying in his diary, what his confidant, the Chief of Staff, is saying in his diary, and there at least it is described that all the pressure from the White House is for Mr. Altman to stay on the investigation. Where is this-why do you think the President has reached a conclusion that there was this pressure stampeding him to get out of it? It seems to me that you can make a case based on what we know was in Mr. Altman's mind and in the minds of the people around him. All of his peers at Treasury said he ought to get out of it, he's one of the President's closest friends, he has this long connection with the President from being in college, people are going to say at least there is a potential conflict of interest here with his friend. We know that. But in terms of pressure, as he perceives it, it's all coming from one direction, from the White House, and it's all to stay in the Madison investigation. Explain to me, if you can, where the President sees this pressure
August 4, 1994 - Part 5
(13:15:29) Mr. McLARTY. Senator, if I understand your question, let me try to respond to it as best I possibly can. As I've already commented this morning and testified, I don't know of any evidence to suggest that Mr. Altman had pressure or intense pressure to recuse himself. I certainly did not convey that to him. I think the President's comment probably is in the context-and Mr. Nussbaum and others can discuss this more fully, I believe Mr. Klein and Mr. Eggleston did yesterday in their panelthere were a number of other nominees that were before various Committees and this matter of recusal, if you had any relationship with the President was an issue, and that really was a very serious issue and one that I think particularly Mr. Nussbaum was concerned about. Senator GRAMM. Let me ask you your opinion on something, if I may, if it's appropriate. Do you believe, given the close association 'I with the President that Mr. Altman should have recused himself, which again, to speak in the language of the people who are listen- ing, that he should have taken himself out of the Madison inves- tigation from day one? Mr. McLARTY. My opinion is that Mr. Altman had all the facts to make that decision he should make that decision. You've charac- terized his relationship with the President. It's not unusual to a relationship. I don't think perhaps the relationship is as close and long-standing as perhaps you suggested, but I, think Mr- Alt', man has been a person, at least in my dealings, that's always been 337 evenhanded and objective and if he reached a conclusion he could in this matter, then that was his decision, Senator. And I think that's what he was weighing. Senator GRAMM. Well, I think that's correct. I guess I would have to go back to the point and pick a real-life example. I've known Senator Domenici since I came to Congress. We're not childhood friends. I never borrowed any money from him. But if I found myself in a position where I had to decide about things like criminal referrals with relationship to my friend, Senator Domenici, or if I found myself having to oversee an investigation of him-and I'm confident that I or no one else will ever be in that Position, which is why I chose him-I think immediately without giving it a thought as long as a heartbeat that I would say, maybe I can be objective, but I think people are going to question whether I can be objective or not. And it wouldn't take a second to say, I want to, in the legal word, recuse myself from this. Yet we have this long, tortured process, with all of this pressure being reported in private, for Mr. Altman to stay on, no pressure recorded in private for him to leave. It strikes me as strange logic. I don't understand the logic the President is expressing here, that he was concerned that Mr. Altman was being forced to withdraw himself from the investigation, when it seems to me that there's, instead, this overwhelming pressure for him to stay on. All of this pressure for him to stay was applied, even though there should have never been any real doubt in anybody's mind that he should have not gotten into it to begin with. The CHAIRMAN. Do you have a response, Mr. McLarty? The time has run, but do you have a response you want to make to that? Mr. McLARTY. Yes, very quickly. The CHAIRMAN. Please do. Mr. McLARTY, First, the testimony has been that there was not pressure prior on this decision and I'd like to respond to that. Second, I recall an exchange, a brief exchange between Mr. Klein and Senator Bennett last night, I believe about this recusal matter, and people can look at this matter differently. To me, Mr. Altman was the person who could know in his gut, I think as Senator Bennett said, whether he could be objective and fair and I think if he concluded that he would indeed feel that way and would be objective and fair. I think that's a decision that each individual has to make, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. Well, we may have to come back to that. Senator Moseley-Braun. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR MOSELEY-BRAUN Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not subscribe to the theory that once everything has been said, everybody has to say it. And so I'm going to just try to resolve a couple of points or implications that may have been raised previously and then ask the witnesses some general questions. In the first instance with regard to the Senator from Texas, I think almost may have mischaracterized the situation because Mr. Altman Was -not, at the time of any of these contacts, involved with crimi- rial referrals at all, in which we know from the record already the President was a witness and not a target of the investigation. 338 Your conversation about the analogy that you used with regard to Senator Domenici suggested it was a case in which
Jet Clashes In Fiery Ball
A plane bound for Philadelphia from Puerto Rico falls during a storm near Elkton, Maryland. Eighty-one persons are killed in the crash that some experts attribute to a bolt of lighting. Maryland Evening and all you see are the silhouettes of rescue workers and firemen walking around a big ball of fire. MS - Camera pans the crash site and there is wreckage strewn all over the place. MS - Three men looking over the crash site. MLS - A small crowd people gathered looking over the crash site, the pieces of the plane are so small that you cannot identify any of the wreckage belonging to a passenger plane.
Out Of The Jungle By Christmas
The first of 1,000 GI's to be evacuated from the fighting in Vietnam leave Saigon for home. The movement is in line with reducing United States forces to 15,000 troops. These men do no ask why, - all they care about is being home for Christmas. Saigon, Vietnam Army and Navy walking and carrying suit cases for their Christmas leave's. CUS - Three higher ranking army officers. MLS - Three United States Transport planes sitting on the tarmac waiting for the military to embark for their trips back home.. MCUS - Military men walking towards the camera. Military men embarking on the Military Air Transport plane and they will be on their way home for Christmas. CUS - The soldiers smiling faces as they board the plane.
Happy Ending: Ransom Frees Frank Sinatra Jr.
Frank Sinatra, Jr., kidnapped from a motel in Lake Tahoe, California, returns safely to his mother's home in West Los Angeles, after his father pays the kidnappers $240,000 in ransom money. The young Sinatra is unharmed after spending 53 hours in the hands of his abductors. California Harrah's Motel in Lake Tahoe. Marquee - George Jessel, Mary Kaye Trio, Tommy Dorsey Orchestra, Helen Forrest, Pied Pipers, Sam Donahue, Chas Shavers and Frank Sinatra. Jr. MCUS - Frank Sinatra Jr. on stage. (no audio) MCUS - The motel annex where Frank Sinatra Jr. was staying. Rm. 417. MCUS - Triumph player, John Foss and standing in back of him are the State Police. MCUS - Road block. CUS - Frank Sinatra Sr.. CUS - Frank Sinatra Jr. and his family, mother and sister Nancy
August 4, 1994 - Part 5
(13:20:42) Senator GRAMM. If the gentlelady would yield Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. No, no, sir. Senator GRAMM [continuing]. We have two sworn statements or, that. September the 29th he made a decision to pass those criminal referrals and the reference to the President on to the White House., Two people under oath have said that. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. At the time that these witnesses that the conversation that we're discussing today were involved, the recusal decision related to the civil cases. Senator GRAMM. No, but he had dealt with the criminal cases on September 29th, which occurred before. That's all I'm saying. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. That's not correct, sir, and the record will indicate that. Senator GRAMM. Two people said under oath that was correct. senator BOXER. Mr. Chairman, can we The CHAIRMAN. The Senator from Illinois does not have to yield. Senator KERRY. The Senator is allowed to draw a conclusion. The Senator is allowed to draw a conclusion as to the 29th, but there is no fact, I mean, two people may have testified, it doesn't make it a fact. The CHAIRMAN. The Senator from Illinois has the time. Senator GRAMM. They said it under oath. That's all I'm saying. Senator KERRY. Somebody else said under oath that wasn't true, so you are left drawing the conclusion. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. That's all I wanted to point out, that the editorializing, I think, may confuse the message that we're giving here in terms of the scope of the testimony, the substance of the testimony from these witnesses and I just want to narrow the focus back to the limited context that these witnesses had and what they have to share with this Committee. And in that vein, I think there is a second misconception that kind of Came Out in the conversation here with regard to the diary entries about, regarding your conversation, Ms. Williams, concerning the First Lady's state of mind. Based on your testimony what we have are two different stories. To use again the Senator from Texas' words, he said there are two stories here. Well, there are two stories about a third person 's state of mind. And the only regard in which it would be material in any event would be to the extent that it might have suggested that Mr. Altman's perception was affected in terms of his decision about whether or not to recuse himself. That's kind of long and tortured, but I think it's important to show where the connections are here because we, we have again and it kind of blurs the waters and a lot of editorializing going on an allows for the possibility at least of misconception ion. And I believe I've heard both of these witnesses say that neither of them had any direct role in pressuring or otherwise suggesting to Mr- Altman what he should do. And that is correct, is it not? Ms. WILLIAMS. That is generally correct, although I would just once more like to volunteer that I suggested to Mr. Altman, with respect to whether or not he should recuse himself that since he was going to use what I thought to be excellent judgment defer- 339 ring to the staff, being a staff person, I thought it made a lot of sense for him not to recuse. I asked him why he would recuse. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. OK. Now, again to put this matter in context, the Madison situation involved a failed S&L that in terms of dollar amounts, Mr. Chairman, and we've gone over this. Senator Kerry was particularly good at trying to put this whole thing in the context of the savings and loan debacle that this country witnessed. Madison came out in terms of dollar losses, although it was a lot of money in whole dollars to ordinary folks, it was still 5/10,000 of 1 percent of the total savings and loan losses. And the only question, there is no question in anyone's mind that the reason that we are all here is, again, the connection as witnesses or again the connection, however tangential it might be, between the President and the First Lady. But at the time getting again being specific to the issues before this panel today, at the time of the recusal decision specifically, at the time that Mr. McLarty describes, in his statement as a period from the end of September to the beginning of March, which would have been roughly the period in which you were involved, I don't know if the question has been asked, I don't think it has, but if you could quickly describe for the panel the context in which all of this happened in terms of your typical day, how many phone calls did you have in a day, how many meetings did you have in a day, how many hours did you work in a day. If you could just very briefly do that because I have a question I'd like to wrap this up with and I don't want to lose much of my time. Mr. McLarty and then Ms. Williams.
Sail boats (lake)
Yacht club - sail boats - scooners
Sailing and surf riding
Cruise at night
Speed boats, sail boats
Loading boats
Yacht at sea