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August 1, 1994 - Part 8
(22:15:35) Ms. HANSON. I received a call from Mr. Nussbaum, which was a follow-up to the conversation of the prior evening. Senator D'AMATO. OK I see the red light is on. I'll yield and come back to this line of questioning. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Boxer. Senator BOXER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Hanson, I'm just going to use my last 7 minutes to go through a few things. I my mind, we 've heard a lot of testimony today, from you an hers and I don't see that anything came of any of these contacts, but I find them extremely troubling despite your explanation. I really would pick up where Senator Roth left off. He said, "It seems to me, you're using as an excuse, if you will, press leaks to breach some confidentiality." He further said, "If this was another case, would you do the same thing?" You said, "Yes, I might---that if I found out there was a leak on something else, I might do the same thing." I have to say this is very troubling to me, and I don't think It press stories should run the Government. I think you're much too valuable an asset to be running around worried about ' what the heck the press is going to say because, I'll tell you, you're never going to know what they're going to do, and if each of us did that, we'd never get a thing done. I really would hope the message you put out, that you didn't see anything wrong with it, would not hold in the future. Ms. HANSON. May I respond to that? Senator BOXER. Certainly. Ms. HANSON. You said two things. One, that it appears people spend a lot of time dealing with press leaks and that's just, in my experience, not the case. These were very isolated incidents and did not involve very much time. The second statement you made was that it was some sort of breach of confidence. There is no law, rule, or regulation that prohibits two governmental employees from having a conversation Senator BOXER. Yes, I understand that. Ms. HANSON. -that has a legitimate governmental purpose. It is not a breach of confidentiality. It happens. Lawyers and other governmental officials talk with each other about nonpublic, confidential information. Senator BOXER. I'm sorry to cut you off, Ms. Hanson, I don't mean to be rude, but I have only 7 minutes and I've waited 3 hours. You've said this before, and I understand we disagree. That's OK People can disagree. You and I, obviously, disagree on 181 whether it was a wise thing to do and that's what makes life go round. We don't always agree with each other. You might question my judgment, and I might question yours, and that's what this is all about. You say it was two people but, then, it turned into eight people. Who was at the meeting, Hanson, Steiner, DeVore, Nussbaum, Gearan, Lindsey, Sloan, Eggleston, and then, later, others called you about it? Obviously, it wasn't simply two people getting involved Ms. HANSON. No one called me about it, to my recollection. Senator BOXER. I'm sorry, I thought Ms. HANSON. And I didn't set up that meeting. I was invited along. Senator BOXER. Excuse me, I know that Mr. Podesta called over to the Treasury. the I don't know if he spoke to you or not. He was con- cerned about the testimony. Ms. HANSON. That was in February. Senator BOXER. Right. Which brings me to another issue. I keep coming back to- Ms. HANSON. Actually, it was--excuse me-in March. I'm sorry. Senator BOXER. I keep coming back to it because it's very important. It was the February 24, 1994 1 testimony of Mr. Altman, you sat behind him, he was asked a question by Senator Gramm: Senator GRAMM: Have you, or any member of your staff, had any communication with the President, First Lady, or any of their representatives, including their legal counsel, or any member of the White House staff, concerning Whitewater or Madison Savings? He answers, "One meeting." He doesn't talk about recusal or about your contacts, and you don't correct him. You say you were desperate to get this transcript and, I guess, this is where-Mr. Chairman, wherever you are, this is where I just-you lose me on this one. I've been around a very long time. I've been in the House of Representatives for 10 years, I've been here for 2 years, I was on a Board of Supervisors for 6 years, and I've done other things in life You are a powerful person in a powerful office, and you couldn't get the transcript. The transcript was delivered. You don't know where it is. Did you pick up the phone and call Steve Harris to try to get the transcript?
August 1, 1994 - Part 8
(22:20:17) Ms. HANSON. The answer is I did not do that personally. I asked, repeatedly, for the transcript. Senator BOXER. If I just I might say---I mean, this point troubles me greatly, because you knew how just important it was you, yourself, knew how important it was that Mr. Altman didn't give the whole truth to the Committee and, the fact is, you wanted to fix this problem up. A day goes by, 2 days. goes by, count the weekends. Telling the truth to a Committee is important. This is about as important as it gets, in my opinion. Maybe it's because I happen to have been sitting there, but this goes to lots of other hearings, we've held where Members of the other party were a little bit on the defensive. The fact, that we must know the truth, is a bipartisan issue for us here. You wanted to correct the testimony and your big excuse, that I hear coming back to me over and over again, is I couldn't get the transcript. Ms. HANSON. There is no other way that I could correct thetestimony. There were 41/2 hours where 182 Senator BOXER. You are missing my point. I agree that you needed the transcript. What I cannot see-I'm putting myself in your shoes, the best I can, and I've been in a position of being in elected office, being a staffer for a Congressperson, being a press person all kinds of thin things. If you want to get a transcript and, as the Chief Counsel of the Treasury, you can't figure out a way to get it, I just have a real terrible problem with that. If your personal secretary couldn't get it, or your assistant couldn't get it, I think you 8 should have gotten a new one. I have a hard time coming to grips with that fact. So, I would just say this I think, again, that the hour's late, you're under a lot of stress and strain and I Ms. HANsON. I will tell you, Senator Boxer, in the future I will always make sure I personally it, that I get the transcript, 7 see to it, because that was clearly a problem here. As I stated Senator BOXER. You interrupted me in the middle of what I was trying to get to. My train of thought was that I know this has been very difficult for you, awfully 11 difficult for you. I would just, respectfully, suggest, at your level of expertise, intelligence, you are articulate, you are educated, you have great experience, that I still have a hard time understanding why, when you knew Mr. Altman didn't tell the full truth, you didn't get in a cab and get the dam transcript, if it was that important to you-and it should have been that important to you. Mr. Chairman, I'm not going to keep on going in this fashion. You can see how I feel about it. I am not satisfying with the fact that we did not get the corrections, we should have gotten, in a timely fashion. I'm sorry your lawyer told you not to be involved in it anymore, but I have a question about that, too, Mr. Chairman. Here is Mr. Altman, whose testimony was not complete, and now, all of a sudden, because of another situation, you're told to forget about it. You can't do anything about fixing up his testimony when you, and you alone, knew it. You went to the White House, you sat there with those folks, you wrote Mr. Altman a memo, although you didn't recall writing it, and you were the one who had the information. It's very odd to me, that your attorney would tell you, that you have no more responsibility to make sure that the Senate of the United States of America knows the whole truth. It's really-maybe it's perception, maybe it's the way you view the world, but I have a-I feel a little uncomfortable about all this. I don't feel anything happened to injure the people of the United States of America by what you did, or didn't do, but I just do not approve of the way this matter was handled in terms of giving us the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I also do not approve of using, as an excuse press leaks to discuss very confidential information which I think only fed into the whole cycle of more press leaks and more stories. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Boxer. Senator Bond. Ms. HANSON. Could I respond to that, please? The CHAIRMAN. If you do it briefly, you know-go ahead.
Mining Boom In Canada
Canada is experiencing a mining boom that the experts are comparing with the uranium rush that followed World War Two. There is a swiftly rising demand for molybdenum, an alloy used in steel, and mines in the wilds of British Columbia are working around the clock to meet the needs of world steel mills. Aerial Shot - Mining area in British Columbia, as you see the land is pretty much stripped. MS - A truck driving up a road carrying dirt. MS - The land heaves and spits soil into the air as explosives are set off underground. MS - A crane loading a huge dump truck with the remains of the earth left over from the explosion. CU - A dump truck unloading its dirt. CU - Young worker wearing a hard hat. MS - The ore being ground up and mixed with water. MS - A mine worker loading up steel drums with raw ore on a conveyor belt. MS - A flat bed semi taking away the packed ore in their 600 pound barrels.
Swimmer Just Misses Mark
Isaac Papke, a 39 year old grandfather attempts a 29 3/4 mile swim from the Farallon Island to a Beach near San Francisco's Golden Gate. He almost makes it, but at the end of 15 hours he has to give up just 2 1/2 miles from his goal. A close up shot of Isaac putting on a bathing cap and goggles, and he is wearing a huge smile on his face. POV - Looking up at the Golden Gate Bridge from a boat in motion. LS - Isaac Papke swimming in a distance in choppy water. MS - Isaac Papke and his pacer swimming in the choppy bay. MS - Coaches and other people standing at a railing of the pilot boat. MS - Isaac Papke drinking coffee in the water, his pacer beside him and in the back ground a man in a row boat, and behind the row boat is the pilot boat. MS - People at the railing of the pilot boat. MS - Papke in the water swimming strong and the sun is starting to set. CUS - Photographer taking pictures with a telescopic lens. Evening and Papke is still swimming, part of the row boat is in the shot. LS - Sun is setting, you see the pilot boat, a two row boats. CUS - Papke standing on the deck of the pilot boat wearing a lei around his neck, still smiling. CUS - Papke his wife to his right and to his left an older woman who kisses him on the side of his cheek.
The Elections: Lindsay Ends NY Dems 20 Year Rule
John V. Lindsay, Republican Liberal candidate for Mayor of New York, ends twenty years of Democratic rule as he runs ahead of two other candidates. In the three-cornered race, Lindsay runs ahead of Abraham "Abe" Beame. Democrat, candidate. His election propels Lindsay onto the national political scene. The new Mayor of New York, John V. Lindsay, Republican. CUS - Mayor Lindsay taking on the phone. High Angle Shot - Throngs of political supporters listening to a speech given by Abraham "Abe" Beame who was the Democratic nominee for Mayor, but was defeated by the Republican candidate, John V. Lindsay. MS - Closing into a close up shot of a poster or billboard of William F. Buckley Jr. the third candidate who was running as a conservative. CUS The new Mayor, John V. Lindsay, Republican shaking hands with the people on the street's of New York. CUS - Camera panning of people queued up to cast their votes. MS - John V. Lindsay at his headquarters and his supporters in attendance.
Chaplin Is Back - Noted Actor To Direct Sophia Loren
At the Savoy Hotel in London, the movies most famous clown announces that he is returning to motion pictures--to direct Sophia Loren in a comedy. Charlie Chaplin has been away from films for 14 years, but he was persuaded to return to direct "The Countess" which will be released by Universal Pictures when completed. Savoy Hotel in London. Doorman in front of hotel door. High Angle Shot - In a hotel banquet room Sophia Loren and Charlie Chaplin are surrounded by 250 members of the press. High Angle Shot - Photographers snapping pictures of the two stars. Medium CUS - Sophia Loren and the back of Charlie Chaplin's head. Tight CUS - Sophia Loren. MS - Sophia Loren sitting on a chair, the camera pans up from her knees to her head. CUS - Photographers snapping more pictures. CUS - Charlie Chaplin. CUS - Sophia Loren.
Mississippi 23 - LSU 0
Louisiana State, leading ground-gainer in the Southeast Conference, is held to 12 yards rushing as Mississippi dominates the entire game. When the dust settles, Mississippi is on top by a whopping 23 to 0. Louisiana State marching band on the football field spelling out LSU. High Angle Shot - Mississippi's marching band spelling out DIXIE. High Angle Shot - Fans in the stands waving little Confederate flags. High Angle Shot - Two teams facing off each other. High Angle Shot - Mississippi quarterback throws the football, it is caught at the one yard line. High Angle Shot - The football is passed and brought home for a touchdown. High Angle Shot - Second half and the kick-off is fumbled, picks it up runs, and fumbles again, Mississippi snatches it in mid air and brings the ball to the six yard line. High Angle Shot - Mississippi is handed off the football and brings it home for a second touchdown. MS - Score board - Ole Miss 16 - LSU 0. High Angle Shot - LSU passes the football and it is intercepted by Mississippi and returns the ball all the way for a touchdown. Mississippi 23 - LSU 0.
Nebraska 16 - Missouri 14
The Missouri Tigers throw a scare into undefeated Nebraska before the Cornhuskers get going. Missouri runs up a 14 to nothing lead before Nebraska gets going, but at the half-time they still trail, 14 - 13. With five minutes left in the game Nebraska pulls it out of the fire with a 3 point field goal. High Angle looking down at the University of Missouri's marching band on the football field. Throngs in attendance for the game. High Angle Shot - Missouri quarterback has the ball, he passes and the ball and it is caught. High Angle Shot - Lane carries the ball for a Missouri touchdown. High Angle Shot - Camera panning the crowd. High Angle Shot - Nebraska quarterback passes the ball and it is intercepted by Missouri. High Angle Shot - Lane passes the ball for nineteen yards just inches from another touchdown. High Angle Shot - Missouri bulls over the other players and scores another touchdown. LS - Missouri football fans are going crazy with happiness in the stands. High Angle Shot - Nebraska finely rolls in the second quarter the receiver catches the football and lands just outside the goal line. High Angle Shot - The ball is carried over into the end zone and Nebraska finely gets on the scoreboard. High Angle Shot - Nebraska is handed off the football and he runs the ball down the side line, and it is taken down just outside the goal line. High Angle Shot - Nebraska takes the ball and carries it over the end zone for his second touchdown. MS - At the half Scoreboard - Missouri 14 - Nebraska 18. Nebraska Defeats Missouri.
The "Human Bomb" Live Grenade Taken From Viet's Back
For ten days, Nguyen Van Chin, a South Vietnamese civilian, was walking booby trap while doctors pondered on how to remove a live grenade from his back. Finally, a bomb-proof operating room was constructed with sandbags. Using six-inch scalpels and probes, a team of three doctors spent 13 anxious minutes removing the live grenade and turning it over to a bomb disposal unit. Asks Van Chin: "When can I go home?" MS - Nguyen shirtless sitting on a bed as two doctors examine his back. MS - Backs of a medical crew and some photographers and sand bags piled up in a hospital room. MS - The backs of the operating room staff and Nguyen getting on the operating table. Looking at the back of Nguyen you see a bump under his skin that is the size of a soft ball. CUS A doctor helping Nguyen on his stomach and preparing him for the operation. MS Behind stacked sandbags the team of three doctors operate with makeshift operating tool holders. Their long bamboo sticks with the operating tools fastened to the ends of the sticks. MS Slowly the removal of the grenade from his back with the makeshift operating tool. CUS Nguyen getting off the operating table. CUS Dr. Humphries being interviewed by the press. MS Nguyen Van Chin sitting crossed legged on his hospital bed.
Princess Meg Tours: Royal Visitor Sees West Coast Sights
Princess Margaret of Britain is Seeing America at last and she begins in San Francisco - first stop on her three-week official visit. She rides a cable car and a Hovercraft and visits a nuclear laboratory before continuing her nation-wide tour. Princess Margaret and her entourage over looking San Francisco Bay. Princess Margaret and her husband, The Earl of Snowden (Anthony Armstrong-Jones). Princess Margaret, Earl of Snowden and the rest of the entourage have fun on a cable car. Secret Service, British Secret Service hanging on to and running along side of the cable car. Aerial shot San Francisco Bay, hovercraft moves across water. People on the roof of the hovercraft standing at the railing, waving. Princess Margaret and the Earl of Snowden disembarking from the hovercraft. MS People standing on the observation deck of a building waving to the Princess and her husband, as they walk towards the building. At Berkley, California "Lawrence Radiation Laboratory". Princess Margaret being shown a model of the partial accelerator.
Arkansas 31 - Rice 0
Footage is damaged. The Arkansas Razorbacks make it 20 straight victories as they grid Rice into the dust - 31 to 0. Jon Brittenum and Bobby Burnett star for Arkansas as the Razorback defensive squad stops all Rice attacks. Packed football stadium at Rice University in Houston, Texas. High Angle Shot - Two football teams facing off. Arkansas, John Brittenum passes the football to Bobby Burnett and he runs the ball 15 yards. High Angle Shot - John Brittenum carries the ball for the last 5 yards for the first touchdown. High Angle Shot - Rice's quarterback passes the ball and goes right into the arms of a Razorback. He returns it 49 yards up to Rice's 9 yard line. High Angle Shot - Burnett is handed off the football and carries it over the goal line, scoring a Razorback touchdown. Scoreboard, U. Arkansas 17 - Rice O. Brittenum throws the football and it is caught. High Angle Shot - Burnett is handed off the football and he goes over the goal line and scores another touchdown for the Razorbacks. Razorback is handed off the football and carries it over the goal line clinching its 20th consecutive win, Arkansas 31 and Rice 0.
UCLA 28 - WASHINGTON 24
Footage is damaged. The California team take on the Washington Huskies and they have to come from behind - 24 to 14 at the Half to squeak through 28 to 24. Gary Began runs for sixty yards and then passes for sixty more to score two late touchdowns. Everything is Coming Up Rose Bowl for UCLA. Crowded stadium with football fans at UCLA, Los Angeles. High Angle Shot - Washington and UCLA facing off on the football field. High Angle Shot - Washington throws a touchdown pass, a 50 yard pass, and a touchdown is scored. High Angle Shot - Washington passes for 56 yards and it is the Huskies second score going up on the scoreboard. High Angle Shot - Washington going for their third touchdown, passes the ball and it is caught - 21 points for Washington. High Angle Shot - California gets up a little steam and Gary Began passes the ball and it is caught. High Angle Shot - Gary Began takes the ball over the goal line and puts 14 points on for UCLA. High Angle Shot - Began for UCLA carries the ball 60 yards for UCLA having quite a time for himself. And its Washington 24 - UCLA 21. High Angle Shot - Began passes the ball and this play including the run eats up 60 yards, and UCLA scores a touchdown UCLA 28 - Washington 24.
August 1, 1994 - Part 8
(22:25:01) Ms. HANSON. First, I disagree that this has been-there has been an investigation by the Independent Counsel. There's been an investigate tion by the inspectors General and there has been no finding that this information, the information that was conveyed to the 183 White House on the criminal referrals on the press leaks, was used inappropriately by anybody, no one. In addition, I am sorry that if you-that you think I didn't handle this transcript, and these issues, appropriately. However, I had no expectation, no expectation the letter that was written on March 2, 1994, which was designed for a specific purpose, and the letter that was written on March 3, 1994, that was also designed for a specific purpose, was going to complete, or was intended to complete, the record. My attorneys gave me specific instructions when the Grand Jury subpoenas were served that since I was under, and the conduct was under, investigation-under a criminal investigation, that conversations between the participants involved could be misconstrued by the Independent Counsel. That was a view that was shared by other people who had received subpoenas. I am sorry that the transcript was not supplemented as I expected it to be, but I was not able to participate, and I did the best job I could do. The CHAIRMAN. We have to leave this exchange at that point. Senator Bond. Senator BOND. Mr. Chairman, first, I want to say to the Senator from California that the very perceptive questions she asked were ones that have been bothering me. I have been disturbed, I've listened all day, and I've read the statements, Ms. Hanson, about what happened to that simple little question I asked. You worked on and prepared, with Mr. Altman, an answer on March 2, 1994. That was, as I gathered from the statement, "I appreciate the opportunity to amend the record accordingly." You did not, in that March 2, 1994, letter, feel that you had to correct the major inadequacies in the answer to that question I asked Mr. Altman? Ms. HUNGARIAN. I'm sorry, sir, I don't understand your question. Senator BOND. You participated in writing the letter of March 2, 1994, that Mr. Altman sent to the Chairman. Is that correct? Ms. HANSON. I read the letter of March 2, 1994, yes. Senator BOND. You knew at the time, that when Mr. Altman answered the question I asked, it was not a full and truthful answer, did you not? Ms. HANSON. I believed that Mr. Altman understood the question and responded to it, to the best of his recollection, with respect to RTC contacts. Senator BOND. Are you trying to play lawyer with us, saying because you were in the Treasury, even though you were detailed to the RTC, that he was somehow using that technicality to say that, because you were operating at the direction of the CEO of the RTC but were employed by the Treasury, it didn't apply to you? Ms. HANSON. I understood that I acted in my capacity as General Counsel to the Treasury. Again as I have testified, I didn't recall at that point in time-as I sat here during the hearing, I had only a vague recollection of my conversation, and I did not know what Mr. Altman recalled. The letter of March 2, 1994, was designed, solely, to put the Committee on notice about the two additional meetings in the fall, that were going to appear in the newspaper article the following day. It was not intended to be a complete description of those contacts, or to supplement the record to make it 184 complete and thorough. So, no, sir,
August 1, 1994 - Part 9
(22:24:35)(Tape #10064) I just do not approve of the way this matter was handled in terms of giving us the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I also do not approve of using, as an excuse press leaks to discuss very confidential information which I think only fed into the whole cycle of more press leaks and more stories. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Boxer. Senator Bond. Ms. HANSON. Could I respond to that, please? The CHAIRMAN. If you do it briefly, you know-go ahead. (22:25:01) Ms. HANSON. First, I disagree that this has been-there has been an investigation by the Independent Counsel. There's been an investigate tion by the inspectors General and there has been no finding that this information, the information that was conveyed to the 183 White House on the criminal referrals on the press leaks, was used inappropriately by anybody, no one. In addition, I am sorry that if you-that you think I didn't handle this transcript, and these issues, appropriately. However, I had no expectation, no expectation the letter that was written on March 2, 1994, which was designed for a specific purpose, and the letter that was written on March 3, 1994, that was also designed for a specific purpose, was going to complete, or was intended to complete, the record. My attorneys gave me specific instructions when the Grand Jury subpoenas were served that since I was under, and the conduct was under, investigation-under a criminal investigation, that conversations between the participants involved could be misconstrued by the Independent Counsel. That was a view that was shared by other people who had received subpoenas. I am sorry that the transcript was not supplemented as I expected it to be, but I was not able to participate, and I did the best job I could do. The CHAIRMAN. We have to leave this exchange at that point. Senator Bond. Senator BOND. Mr. Chairman, first, I want to say to the Senator from California that the very perceptive questions she asked were ones that have been bothering me. I have been disturbed, I've listened all day, and I've read the statements, Ms. Hanson, about what happened to that simple little question I asked. You worked on and prepared, with Mr. Altman, an answer on March 2, 1994. That was, as I gathered from the statement, "I appreciate the opportunity to amend the record accordingly." You did not, in that March 2, 1994, letter, feel that you had to correct the major inadequacies in the answer to that question I asked Mr. Altman? Ms. HUNGARIAN. I'm sorry, sir, I don't understand your question. Senator BOND. You participated in writing the letter of March 2, 1994, that Mr. Altman sent to the Chairman. Is that correct? Ms. HANSON. I read the letter of March 2, 1994, yes. Senator BOND. You knew at the time, that when Mr. Altman answered the question I asked, it was not a full and truthful answer, did you not? Ms. HANSON. I believed that Mr. Altman understood the question and responded to it, to the best of his recollection, with respect to RTC contacts. Senator BOND. Are you trying to play lawyer with us, saying because you were in the Treasury, even though you were detailed to the RTC, that he was somehow using that technicality to say that, because you were operating at the direction of the CEO of the RTC but were employed by the Treasury, it didn't apply to you? Ms. HANSON. I understood that I acted in my capacity as General Counsel to the Treasury. Again as I have testified, I didn't recall at that point in time-as I sat here during the hearing, I had only a vague recollection of my conversation, and I did not know what Mr. Altman recalled. The letter of March 2, 1994, was designed, solely, to put the Committee on notice about the two additional meetings in the fall, that were going to appear in the newspaper article the following day. It was not intended to be a complete description of those contacts, or to supplement the record to make it 184
August 1, 1994 - Part 9
(22:30:17)(Tape #10063 ends) it was not intended to be a full description of those contacts. Senator BOND. Ms. Hanson I it does say, "I would appreciate it if you would amend the record accordingly." When Mr. Altman called me that evening, on March 2, 1994, 1 was struck then, as I am struck in your answer now, that the thing that seems to drive YOU to correct the inaccuracies in the testimony to the Congress, was the fact that the truth was going to come out in the newspaper. I would hope there would be a somewhat greater responsibility that you would feel as an attorney, when you have information that makes you aware your client is clearly, actively, and demonstrably misleading Congress, to advise your client to correct the record, or at least indicate that there was a question which would have to be clarified later. I find that to be extremely troubling. Ms. HANSON. Sir, I think you have mischaracterized what I have said and what I did. I have said that that letter was not intended to be a full response to your questions. That letter was sent, as a courtesy, so that the Committee would be aware of those two additional contacts before the article appeared in the paper. What was left still to be done, sir, was to review the whole transcript, and to respond to the questions that we understood were coming. We understood that there were going to be many of them. I fully expected that every single contact, between the RTC, the Treasury, and the White House, on these matters, was going to be fully and completely laid out. However, as I've stated, I received a Grand Jury subpoena and I did not have an opportunity, even to read the transcript, until after the subpoena was served. What I expected to happen didn't happen, when the March 2, 1994, letter was done. During the course of that week I had no expectation that anything, other than what I thought was going to happen, which was a thorough, care ful, orderly review of the record, and correction and completion in answering of questions, was going to occur. I really-and I am I really resent your statement about my professionalism. Senator BoND. Ms. Hanson, if there's anyone who has something to resent-1 feel that you did not deal properly with us. Let me ask you, since you did ask specifically for, and looked at, the tape in which those questions were asked. There were two questions you said you focused on. You didn't need to wait for the transcript. You saw that on the tape. You were there in real life, you saw it on tape, and you still did not feel obliged to tell your client that he should correct his testimony. You didn't need the whole transcript, because the question was raised about the accuracy of the response to the question I addressed to Mr. Altman. You went back and looked at the tape, I believe we gathered from your earlier discussion, and you saw, then and there, did you not, that he misled us, that he did not Ms. HANSON. Sir, as I stated, we looked at the tape on March 1, 1994. Overnight, I created-I worked on those questions and answers and tried to get an understanding in my own mind. We put together a letter, which was not, in my mind, the letter that would have been put together if we had bad more time, and we sent that letter in. By no-I did not expect that to be a full and complete re 185 sponse to your question, sir. That's not what I understood that letter to be.
August 1, 1994 - Part 9
(22:41:35) Ms. HANSON. I can't ascertain it for you specifically. Throughout this period of time I was working with attorneys, Counsel for the oversight board, staff-career staff in the Treasury who helped write FIRREA, and Counsel for the RTC. I felt-I always felt, and I continued to feel, that I had ample authority for everything that I was doing. The attorneys in the Treasury, as I say, also oversight board and RTC attorneys, knew what I was doing and none of them raised an issue about authority. Those attorneys, to my experience-in my experience, have no problem raising an issue if they think that there is a legal authority problem. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. I won t get into whether it was raised or not, because I think, in some of the testimony, it was raised that you did not have the authority to-when you specifically requested to see the criminal referrals, you were refused that information. Ms. HANSON. I never, ever, requested to see the criminal referrals. I've never seen them. I never requested to see them. 187 Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. I guess my question to you is, assuming that you-you assumed that you had this authority. I want to pick up where Senator Roth left off. Senator Roth raised the question, and I would raise the question of you as well, did it never occur to you, or to anyone in these involvements, that the lines between your role at Treasury and your role at the RTC, that those lines might give rise to an ethical dilemma for you? Ms. HANSON. No, and it didn't happen. It didn't happen. There was no ethical dilemma in doing the work that I did. I was asked by my superior to do it, and I did it. He had plenty of statutory authority to ask it and, also, to grant it. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Then let me ask you one final question, Ms. Hanson, if you had all this to do over again, what parts, if any, would you do differently now? Ms. HANsON. If I could, just to correct-to make sure that my testimony is perfectly clear on the criminal referrals, I did have a conversation with Mr. Roelle, at one point, about the criminal referrals, because it had been suggested that I might read them. I told Mr. Roelle that it had been suggested that I read them, and he said, "Jean, you don't want to do that," and I said, "You're right, I don't want to do that," just so the record is completely clear. I'm sorry, your question, again, is if I had it to do over, what would I do differently? I would make sure that I got a transcript. I don't think I would do anything else different] further questions. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Thank you. No further The CHAIMAN. Senator Bond.