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Whitewater Hearings August 1, 1994 - Part 1
(11:15:37) Ms. KuLKA. I'm sorry. Would you repeat the date, sir? Senator DAMATO. From January through mid-February. Ms.-KuLKA. Yes. senator D'AMATO. OK. Were there any other specific cases in which you gave a briefing to Mr. Altman during that period of time when he was the bead of the RTC? Ms. KULKA. The only other case that I remembered was the Diamond litigation. Senator DAMATO. OK. What is the Diamond litigation? Ms. KuLKA. This is litigation where the RTC, as receiver, has property that is subject to the rent control laws in New York. The RTC has carried this case through the circuit court successfully to 13 pre-empt the State rental control laws and to free certain of the units from the application of that law. This was another case where we had a lot of congressional inquiry and the Deputy Secretary and Interim CEO were interested in it. Senator D'AMATO. Is that the only other case you ever spoke to Mr. Altman about? Ms. KuLKA. That's the only other case I recollect speaking with him about. Senator D'AMATO. OK Thank you very much. The CHAiRMAN. Senator Dodd. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR CHRISTOPIIER J. DODD Senator DODD. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Let me thank all of you, by the way, for being here today. I think it's important to pick right up on the line of questioning that Senator D'Amato has raised with Ms. Kulka. Let me ask you very directly, did you tell anyone that the RTC would not bring a case because of the inability to put documents together prior to February 28, 1994? Ms. KULKA. No, sir. Senator DODD. You talked to no one about that, at the White House? The Treasury? Ms. KULKA. I never said that to anyone at the RTC because that was not the case. Senator DODD. Nor at the White House? Ms. KULKA. I've never spoken to anyone at the White House. Senator DODD. Nor at the Treasury Department? Ms. KuLKA. No, sir. Senator DODD, Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, I think it's important for the purpose of clarity here to lay out exactly where we are with regard to this phase of the investigation. Let me quote from Mr. Fiske regarding this particular question the Committee is asked to address-that is, whether or not any illegal activity occurred surrounding the so-called contacts issue. I the quote from the Fiske statement. He says: The evidence is insufficient to establish that anyone within the White House or the Department of the Treasury acted with the intent to corruptly influence an RTC investigation. Therefore, the evidence of the events surrounding the contacts between the White House and the Treasury does not justify the prosecution of anyone for the violation of Section 1505, which is obstruction of Federal proceedings. We have also concluded that the evidence does not justify a criminal prosecution for violation of any other statute. I think it's very important that that statement by Mr. Fiske be included in the record. Second, Mr. Chairman, I think it's important to note that the Office of Government Ethics concluded in the last 24 or 48 hours that there were no ethical violations in this matter at all, I think it's important to note that. . Now this Committee may draw a different conclusion, but I think its important that the record reflect that, at this particular juncture. I think it's also important to note who the Office of GovernMerit Ethics is run by---- Stephen Potts, who was appointed by President Bush. This is not a Lloyd Bentsen appointee. It's an independ 14 ent agency that Secretary Bentsen asked to examine this issue on March 3, 1994, and at the request of Mr. Fiske, delayed that investigation until June 30, 1994. They spent the last month going over all the documentation and that independent agency, under the direction of an appointee of President Bush, concluded there were no ethical violations in this particular matter. Now, if I may The CHAIRMAN. Senator Dodd, before you go on, that report is out and I think we ought to make it a part of our own records just for reference purposes. Senator DODD. I would move that that be the case. The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, it is so ordered. Senator DODD. I would point out as well that they pointed out some troubling contacts and this Committee ought to examine those troubling contacts. I think it is important. When I first heard about it, I thought, well , maybe this is just a Treasury Department group. I discovered it was an independent agency under the direction of Mr. Potts and career people, not political people, looking at these issues. Now, I'd like to ask each and every one of you to respond to the following question, and I'll begin with you, Mr. Roelle. Did any official at the White House ask you to take, or instruct you to take any action to obstruct or impede the Resolution Trust Corporation's handling of either the criminal or civil cases against Madison Guaranty? Mr. ROELLE. No, sir. Senator DODD. Ms. Kulka? Ms. KuLKA. No. Senator DODD. Mr. Ryan? Mr. RYAN. No. Senator DODD, Mr. Katsanos? Mr. KATSANOs. No, sir. Senator DODD. What is it? Mr. KATSANOS. No, sir. Senator DODD. Did any one of you take any action to obstruct or impede the Resolution Trust Corporation's handling of either the criminal or civil cases against Madison Guaranty? Mr. Roelle? Mr. ROELLE. No, sir. Ms. KuLKA. No. Mr. RYAN. No, sir. Mr. KATSANOS. No, sir. Senator DODD. I thank all four of you. Mr. Chairman, I'll yield back the balance of my time to others who may have some questions.
Ike is 77
"Former President Eisenhower observes his 77th birthday with a Washington church cornerstone ceremony and a party, where he avoids the Hawks vs Doves issue, urging a Vietnam peace on honorable terms." LS Presbyterian church under construction in Washington, DC. MS former President DWIGHT EISENHOWER unveiling cornerstone drawing on curtain. CU fanciful engraving on granite: "1967." MCU Dwight Eisenhower & MAMIE EISENHOWER looking to their right. MS Ike blowing out candles on birthday candles during a formal banquet party.
India
"Thousands of Hindus celebrate the annual festival of Dushehra (dassera), the legendary religious triumph of good over evil. A parade and nighttime fireworks display ends with the burning of evil effigies." TLS men marching in parade, some carying tubas. TLS/MSs religious floats. TLS/MSs massive effigies of "demon king" Ravana, his son & brother in open field. Panning MS Indian President ZAKIR HUSAIN waving from passing open convertible. TLS/MSs nighttime fireworks display during reenactment of historical battle between Ravana and Prince Rama; includes great shot of a slow-moving rocket being launched at effigy of Ravana, which ignites and burns until massive effigy falls to the ground in a spectacular display. Very interesting.
Whitewater Hearings August 1, 1994 - Part 1
(11:20:35) The CHAIRMAN. Very good, Senator Dodd. Senator Bond. OPENING COMNTNTS OF SENATOR CHRISTOPHER S. BOND Senator BOND. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Since my colleague from Connecticut has brought into the record this report of the Secretary of the Treasury from the Office of Government Ethics, dated July 31, 1994, 1 thought just for the record, 15 I would give you what my very brief analysis of that is. We've only had a few hours to look at it. I'll have to say that, first, this is not an investigation by the OGE. It is an analysis of some of the information now before us that was presented to it by the Treasury, It clearly does not have all of the information we have, and they expressly state that they have not interviewed members of the White House staff, employees, or the President. It expressly excludes any comment on White House officials' ethics. It relies on some technicalities and some debatable assumptions which we will get into later on. It does say, as my friend from Connecticut pointed out, that: "The standards of conduct are not a yardstick by which all Government actions can be measured, and conduct that some may perceive as unethical does not violate the standards of conduct." They say on page 3: "Many of the contacts detailed in the report are troubling." I think that troubling nature is something that we have to address here. The report did apparently conclude that there were some unethical activities by a former employee of the RTC on pages 15 and 16, but says that: "Since he was no longer employed, it was not within their scope of examination," I do find it very helpful, in light of some of the testimony that was presented before the House, that the OGE spent some time examining the proposition that a leak, a press inquiry, or a potential press inquiry would justify disclosure of confidential information. And on page 6, this letter says: "Documents containing information about referrals to the Department of Justice are generally exempt from public disclosure by virtue of Exemption B(7) of FOIA." The fact that-and I'm skipping some of the verbiage-the fact that information has been leaked would not cause an agency to consider the information to have lost its nonpublic character. A waiver of the FOIA exemption has not occurred because of an unauthorized disclosure, citing cases. This proposition regarding the nonpublic nature of information that has been leaked would bold true as well under a relevant section of the standards of conduct. Now, at the bottom of page 6, they go on to say: "The RTC's disclosure policy may have been violated in the case of information regarding a criminal referral being discussed without the necessary authorization." They. raise a question whether such an authorization would comport with the RTC's disclosure policy. The analysis goes on to suggest that Ms. Hanson is not covered because she does not have a personal friendship or nongovernmental affiliation with the President or Mrs. Clinton. Reading that, one immediately calls into question whether there is such a relationship between her supervisor, Mr. Altman, who gave those instructions. Later on ' I found that there is probably no way that, under the view of the OGE, Mr. Altman could violate the standards of ethics with respect to the President. They say on page 11, they don't know what Mr. Altman's role in the disclosure of September 29, 1993, may have been, but "there's insufficient information to en- 16 able us to provide you with any further analysis of Mr. Altman's participation in this disclosure."
Whitewater Hearings August 1, 1994 - Part 1
(11:25:23) Then, on page 20, they say: "Mr. Altman's friendship with the President is not a covered relationship that would necessarily trigger the recusal procedures in the relevant section of' the standards." They do say Mr. Altman's actions in this regard, "are somewhat confusing." The thing that further calls into question this report is that having established the clear principle that a leak to the press or a potential leak does not justify disclosure of nonpublic information, they then proceed to justify the discussions and disclosure between the Treasury and the RTC on the basis of the fact that there was an impending leak to the press. As I said, no disrespect to my friends from Pennsylvania, but this gives a Philadelphia lawyer a bad reputation. There are some specific questions I think we will address later on. On page 19, it assumes that Mr. Altman's disclosure bad been cleared in advance with an ethics official. I think the information we have will call that into question. You have already raised the critically questioned assumption on the basis of time of the completion of the RTC analysis, a question which Ms. Kulka has provided in her testimony. We have other testimony before us, I think it is noteworthy that the OGE exonerates Mr. Eugene Ludwig in regard to the responses to the President's questions and certainly it appears that Mr. Ludwig has done nothing improper. But it does not make any comment on the President's action in inquiring. It further raises questions about the calls to Mr. Stephens, but finds that responding to those calls was in no way improper. It seems to me if we are to accept the analysis of the OGE, then no communication of nonpublic information by the head of a regulatory agency to the President, which may be of great personal interest to the President, could violate the ethics or conflict of interest standards. That may be good enough for the Office of Government Ethics, but I submit that I, for one, do not believe that that kind of standard is adequate, nor do I think it should limit the inquiries of this Committee or the questions we pose to the witnesses. I thank the Chairman, The CHAIRMAN. Senator Sasser. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR JIM SASSER Senator SASSER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Kulka, as General Counsel for the Resolution Trust Corporation, you had the responsibility of retaining various attorneys and law firms around the country to try to effect collections from failed S&L's and failed S&L officers and others that would flow back into the RTC, did you not? Ms. KuLKA. Yes. Senator SASSER. Now, Ms. Kulka, let me ask you, in the case of the hiring of the Jay Stephens law firm, who began the process that ultimately resulted in the hiring of Jay Stephens to represent 17 the Resolution Trust Corporation in the question of civil charges against Madison? I ask that question for this reason. Mr. Jay Stephens was a former U.S. Attorney appointed by, I believe, the Administration of President Bush, and was viewed by some in this area to be a fairly partisan prosecutor. I'm not saying he was or he wasn't. That was just the way he was viewed by some in the Washington area. Who began the process of hiring Yr. Jay Stephens? Ms. KULKA. There was a discussion amongst the staff working on the matter that, very early on, we needed to have outside counsel. The process by which outside counsel was identified was begun by the Senior Counsel on this matter, pursuant to normal RTC procedures. Senator SASSER. And I understand-so Mr. Stephens was hired just in the ordinary course of business there and in the ordinary way that attorneys and law firms are retained by the Resolution Trust Corporation. Ms. KULKA. May I expand on that a little bit, Mr. Sasser? Senator SASSER. Yes, please.
Whitewater Hearings August 1, 1994 - Part 1
(11:30:30) Ms. KULKA. Mr. Stephens wasn't hired. The firm of Pillsbury, Madison, and Sutro was hired. In connection with identifying an appropriate law firm to handle this, the Senior Counsel identified four law firms-I don't remember the names of the others-who had experience in complex, sensitive litigation who might be able to handle it. The Senior Counsel asked for bids, asked who had legal services agreements with us where their rates were fixed, and asked for them to provide proposals or bids which would describe cost factors, expertise, and so on. In the course of doing that, the Pillsbury firm identified the personnel, as they must, to comply with our regulations, who might work on the matter. They identified a number of people, including three partners. The lead partner was clearly going to be a person who had handled other high-profile, sensitive matters, and that was a man named Mr. Patterson. Another partner they identified to work on the matter was Jay Stephens who, my staff advised me, was the immediate former U.S. Attorney in Washington who had been appointed by a Republican. Senator SASSER. All right. Ms, KuLKA. If I just might add one more thought. Senator SASSER, Sure. Ms. KULKA. I came -to Washington in the middle of January and, in fact, in the middle of a snowstorm. I do not recollect ever having beard of who Mr. Stephens was before in the North. I knew nothing about the controversial nature of remarks he bad made or who he was, other than what my staff told me. Senator SASSER. The firm of which Mr. Stephens was a partner was hired the same day, I think, that Secretary Altman testified before this Committee. Isn't that true? Ms. KULKA. I really have never looked at the (lay the en gagement letter was signed. They were identified before, and may have even started to work before then. Senator SASSER. The point I'm diiving at is this. Mr. Jay Stephens' law firm was hired at a time before Secretary Altman 18 recused himself and the Jay Stephens law firm was hired in the ordinary course of business of fhe Resolution Trust Corporation, because it met the objective criteria of the agency, I presume. Ms. KuLKA. That's correct. Senator SASSER. So, if Mr. Altman had wanted to act as a tool of the Administration to kill the Madison case, it would have not been very wise to retain the services of the Jay Stephens law firm, it? would . Ms. KuLKA. Mr. Altman never had any role in the selection of counsel and be never tried to. Senator SASSER. Right. That's the point I'm trying to make, Ms. Kulka, and I thank you for making it. Mr. Roelle, is it your testimony that in October 1993, Mr. Altman told Ms. Hanson, the General Counsel -for the Treasury Department, in your presence to go tell Mr. Nussbaum, the Counsel for the White House, about the press leaks that might be attendant to the proposed criminal referrals to the Justice Department? STATEMENT OF WILLIAM H. ROELLE, FORMER SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT AND CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, RESOLUTION TRUST CORPORATION, WASHINGTON, DC Mr. ROELLE. I surmise that. He didn't say it that way, Senator. He instructed her to tell a number of people about the impending news release on this matter and be mentioned the name Bernie, along with several other names. He did not say Mr. Nussbaum. Senator SASSER. Did you make that surmise there that day when Mr. Altman allegedly made this communication to Ms. Hanson? Mr. ROELLE. No, sir. I didn't even think about it until actually it was later when I was thinking about it that I realized it could have been Mr. Nussbaum. I remarked to my wife that night it's possible that's who he meant, although I do not know. All I know is that be said Bernie. Senator SASSER. Did you make the connection that it might be Mr. Nussbaum after the meeting with Mr. Altman and Ms. Hanson? Mr. ROELLE. Yes, sir. Senator SASSER, That's curious that it wouldn't occur to you until after the meeting. In other words, he referred to Bernie in the meeting, but it was not until after the meeting that it occurred to you that he might be talking about the White House Counsel, Mr. Nussbaum. Mr. ROELLE. No, I don't think it was curious at all. I had seen something on the press that night about Bernie Nussbaum and it occurred to me at that point that's who be might have meant. Senator SASSER. Mr. Roelle, when it occurred to you that he might have meant Bernie Nussbaum, the Counsel for the White House, what was your reaction? Did you think it was proper for Ms. Hanson to discuss this matter with Mr. Nussbaum? Mr. RoELLE. It was a matter of a pending leak that the press bad gotten bold of. I, had self would have wished there had been no contact at all with the White House. But I made no inference one way or the other about what was appropriate in terms of a press leak.
'Copter "Hauldown"
The Canadian Navy has developed a new way to land helicopters safely aboard ships. It's called "The Beartrap" and the 'copter is hauled down to the flight deck on cables. Quick shot of a battleship docked in a harbor. A helicopter hovers above the flight deck. A control council. A technician adjusts levers. The helicopter is pulled into the deck by a cable. Two shots of the helicopter landing on the deck.
Steeplechase
"The 78th annual Pardubice Steeplechase in Czechoslovakia has 26 of the best horse and rider combinations in Europe off the starting mark. With several bad spills, the four-mile event is won by a Russian horse, Dresden." TLSs two dozen horses taking off from starting line, jumping hedgerows and water obstacles. MCU two white woman in audience. TLS horses leaping over water hazard, falling, throwing jockeys. MCU old white man looking through binoculars. Slow motion TLS horses leaping tall hedgerow; several fall and cause a pile-up; horrifying to look at. MS crazy jockey leaping horse over hedgerow, jocket taking tumble, somersaulting forward (almost looks rehearsed, it's so graceful). CU attractive young white woman with long hair, wearing white turtleneck, corduroy jacket. Great TLS several horses making spectacular leap over great water hazard. TLS horse making very-same jump, coming up short, tossing jockey head over heels. Dangerous. Sideview slow motion TLS horse jumping water gulley, some coming up slightly short, though there are no accidents. TLS jockey leading horse through water. MS several white men standing, cheering the horses on. Panning LS winning horse Dresden galloping to the finish line. Closes with "The End" over animation of the earth spinning in space.
Whitewater Hearings August 1, 1994 - Part 1
(11:35:38) Senator SASSER. Right. Did you make any attempt to contact either the General Counsel for the Treasury Department, Ms. Hanson, or Secretary Altman to tell them, in your judgment, it might be unwise or even improper for Ms. Hanson to contact Mr. Nussbaum and tell him about these referrals that might be coming? Mr. ROELLE. I don't think that was the discussion. We weren't discussing the referrals. I had told Senator SASSER, Excuse me. You were just discussing the press leaks. Mr. ROELLE. Yes, sir, and it wasn't about the referrals, specifically. It was the fact that the referrals were now apparently public information, insofar as the press had them, and we had been told by inquiries from the press that it was likely to run in the next day's or the following day's newspapers. Senator SASSER. I guess the question I have then-I see my time is expired, Mr. Chairman, But, I guess the question I have is if these referrals were public knowledge-that is, the press had them and you thought they'd be in the press the next day-what was wrong with, in that instance, the General Counsel, Ms. Hanson, discussing it with Mr. Nussbaum, because they were going to be in the newspaper? Mr. RoELLE, I don't recall ever saying that I thought there was anything wrong with it. I think that, in most of these situations, it's not a matter of right and wrong. It's a matter of- Senator SASSER. Appearance? Mr. ROELLE. To me it is. But I come from a long history of being a regulator and dealing with these matters in absolute confidentiality. I think, in my testimony to your staff, I indicated that I was making no judgments as to the ethics standards or the law. It would just, in my judgment, had been better had nobody known about just, Senator SASSER. Would it have been better if the press had not known about it? Mr. ROELLE. Absolutely. Senator SASSER. All right. Thank you, Mr. Roelle. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Sasser. Senator Mack. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR CONNIE MACK Senator MACK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Roelle, you have previously testified that during his first staff meeting in March 1993, you spoke to Mr. Roger Altman, then Acting CEO of the RTC, regarding Madison Guaranty's first criminal referral. Is that correct? Mr. RoELLE. That's correct. Senator MACK. Drawing your attention to the fall of 1993, it was Your testimony that you informed Mr. Altman of the nine new Criminal referrals of Madison matters on September 24, 1993. Is that correct? Mr. ROELLE. I thought it was September 27, 1993. I'm not sure. But I did notify him, yes, sir. Senator MACK, All right. I think that, as we go through this, it might shed some light on the dates. 20 Mr. ROELLE. OK Senator MACK. In this conversation, that I just referred to, was it your understanding that Mr. Altman then made reference to you speaking to Jean Hanson about the nine new referrals? Mr. ROELLE. That's correct, sir. Senator MACK. So then, you bad a subsequent conversation to that with Ms. Hanson? Mr. ROELLE. Yes, Sir. Senator MACK. Do you have any idea when that conversation took place? Mr. ROELLE. The same day, sir. Senator MACK. This conversation with Ms. Hanson took place on September 27, 1993? Mr. ROELLE. I believe so, yes, sir. Senator MACK. Can you reconstruct your first conversation with Ms. Hanson for us? Mr. ROELLE. I think it would be instructive if I went over the whole conversation with Mr. Altman and Ms. Hanson, if that would be appropriate. Senator MACK. Did this take place on September 27, 1993? Mr. ROELLE. I believe they occurred on the same day, yes, sir. Senator MACK. Are you going to describe the conversation with Roger Altman and then a subsequent conversation with Ms. Hanson? Mr. ROELLE. Yes, I think that would put it in perspective. Senator MACK. Fine. Go ahead. Mr. ROELLE. I bad been notified that we had some criminal referrals going forward. I bad been notified on the previous evening. I inquired of the person that notified me what the nature of the criminal referrals was. He indicated that these referrals were going forward and it was on the Madison situation. He described them to me briefly. I said, "It sounds an awful lot like the previous criminal referral. Would you please check to see if it's not just the same one?" He said be would and would call me back the next day. He called me back. I indicated to him, OK, thank you very much. I'll have to brief Mr. Altman. I advised him to neither look right nor left, up or down, to proceed forward with these criminal referrals and to do it just like we would do it. Senator DODD. I'm sorry. Advised, who? I'm losing the names here.
Brush Fires Destroy Homes in California
"Two days of Southern California brush fires blacken 50,000 acres, destroy 42 homes, and kill one. Winds up to 50 M.P.H. whipped the flames. Police launched an arson investigation." LS wildfires burning out of control on hillside, emergency crews on road in FG. LS wildfires engulfing hills. Panning TLSs brush fires. TLS burning shed. Panning MS scared jackrabbit running across street. Nice shot of high noon sun burning in sky, obscurred by thick black smoke. More shots fires.
Paris Baby Dior Shop Opened by Princess Grace
A "Baby Dior" fashion shop opens in Paris and Princess Grace does the ribbon-cutting. The shop outfits infants-to-school aged kids in the nattiest napery in town! The exterior facade of the store is shown. Small window boxes are hung from each window of the five-story building. Princess Grace emerges from a car. She cuts the ribbon. A quick shot of the story's name. Various shots of reporters photographing the Princess as she shops and the store's display windows. Princess Grace emerges from the store.
Colts - Cowboys
In a real squeaker, the Baltimore Colts squeeze by the Dallas Cowboys, 23-17, with Lenny Moore scoring the deciding T.D. with only 90 seconds to go. The colts remain the only unbeaten team in the NFL. A black screen reads, "Football - Colts 23 - Cowboys 17." A variety of passes are shown. A fan listens to the game's broadcast over a radio headset.
Raiders - Chargers
Oakland beats San Diego, 41-21, and takes firm hold on first place in the AFL's Western Division. Raider quarterback Daryle Lamonica throws four T.D. passes. A black screen reads, "Football - Raiders 41 - Chargers 21." The Oakland Stadium is packed. A variety of plays are shown. Crowd shots.
Whitewater Hearings August 1, 1994 - Part 1
(11:40:47) Mr. ROELLE. The Vice President in Kansas City, who notified me that evening. I advised him, don't do any more or any less than you would normally do in any criminal referral. At that point, I called Mr. Altman. I talked to him for maybe 6 minutes. He indicated to me he really didn't understand what I was expressing to him and that he would have Jean Hanson call me, and if I would go over it with her, he would appreciate it. At which point be bung up and I believe a few hours later, although I'm not sure exactly when, Ms. Hanson called me and asked what was going on. I expressed to her that we had some more criminal referrals 8 on the Madison issue. 21 I went over those criminal referrals very briefly, based on the information that I had been given orally over the telephone about what they were about. That conversation may have lasted 10 or 15 minutes. Then we talked briefly about if it would be appropriate for those criminal referrals to be seen by anybody? I said, "In my judgment, it makes no difference if anybody sees them and, therefore, I don't think they should be seen because they were going to proceed normally I advised Ms. Hanson that I bad told the staff in Kansas City to proceed normally with these criminal referrals, Go ahead and process them. She said, "OK. I will express that to Mr. Altman." We talked briefly about-I had asked her, "Who do you, intend to tell about this besides Mr. Altman?" She said, "Well, I hadn't really thought about anybody." And I said, "Good, I do not think it would be appropriate to discuss it with anybody." I also, I believe, have testified to numerous different groups that I was never thinking of the White House when I made that statement. I was thinking about other officials at Treasury. We had a number of officials at Treasury always at meetings with the RTC, and I thought these things should be kept confidential, and the best way to do that was not to discuss them, Senator MACK. Do you think that she understood your message about confidentiality? Mr. ROELLE. I don't know. She never expressed it one way or the other. She said, "I will discuss this with Mr. Altman and we will get back to you if we need to." Senator MACK. In the conversation, did you tell her that the referrals mentioned the Clintons and Governor Jim Guy Tucker? Mr. ROELLE. I did indicate what each of the nine criminal referrals had reference to and I did mention that the President and First Lady bad been mentioned in the criminal referrals. Senator MACK. How about Governor Jim Guy Tucker? Mr. RoELLE. I did say what-I'm not sure where I stand here, Mr. Chairman. I want to be totally responsive. But I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say about what's in these criminal referrals. I will say that I told Ms. Hanson what each of the nine criminal referrals' basic charges were. The CHAIRMAN. If you'll yield just a minute, just on the scope issue. Senator MACK. Let me make a point here. The CHAIRmAN. I don't want to go across this line, though. Senator MACK, I'm not going to. What I think Mr. Roelle le is saying is that he has real reservations, even today, about providing information that was included in those referrals. When we asked him for the cover page on those referrals, he refused to it to us. Yet, that's information that the White House apparently has The CHAiRmAN. I think, if I may say Senator D'AMATO. Mr. Chairman, I think that the Senator is Making a very important point, He's not going to try to cross the line. What he is saying is that Mr, Roelle considers that information SO confidential, so as not to compromise someone, that be doesn't think he can cross the line and reveal names, et cetera. 22 I think it is instructive, though, and Senator Mack has made the point, is attempting to make the point, that that same information was given-the information lie cannot give this Committee todayto the White House. That's a very valid point. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN, Mr. Chairman? The CHAIRMAN. Just a moment, please. I understand the point you're making. I think, Mr. Roelle, you're correct, in your hesitation to not go into the details of the criminal referrals here today. I think that's appropriate. That would violate our scope requirements. And so, just so we all understand the fact as to where that line is, you've stopped short of it and I think it's appropriate here that you do so.
French Farmers Protest
"Farmers throughout France block road and rail traffic in protest to President DeGaulle's farm policies. Cut-price port imports have hurt the farmers. Their demonstration leads the government to halt imports and study ways toward a permanent settlement." TLSs Paris street shut down by blockade of parked farming tractors. H/a TLSs tractors driving on street, taking turn at traffic circle. TLSs various tractors driving on city streets. TLS semi-tractor trailer blocking intersection. MS police officer watching on as supporters gather around a group of tractors. TLS protestors gathering on train tracks in a rail yard. TLS passenger train stopped on tracks. MS sign on train ("Toulosse Tarbes Lourdes Bayonne") tilt up to passengers leaning out window. TLS passengers standing outside stopped train.
Church Congress
"The Synod of Bishops and World Congress of Catholic laymen gather in Rome where Pope Paul warns laymen to follow established Catholic teaching. A woman speaks before the Synod for the first time in history and the Congress petitions the Vatican for the right of free choice on birth control." MS bishops and cardinals walk in procession during papal mass. MS of POPE PAUL VI waving from chair that is being carried into service. MS seated crowd of blacks & whites (Europeans and Africans). CUs black woman, white woman. MS NASA astronaut JAMES MCDIVITT attending papal mass. MS Pope Paul VI blessing eucharist, raising ceremonial wine. MS Pope Paul VI gives communion to James McDivitt and wife. MS Pope Paul VI wearing pontiff hat, lecturing from in front of the altar. TLS/MSs senate of bishops, American Jean Shields addressing group.
Experimental VTOL Aircraft
"An experimental tilt-wing and engine plane is capable of straight up and down takeoffs and landings. It's expected to be the aircraft of the future in busy metropolitan areas with little or no runway space available." Air to air shot of experimental United States Air Force VTOL (vertical take-off and landing) tilt-wing Ling-Temco-Vought XC-142 Tri Service four engine propeller plane hovering over runway. TLS XC-142 VTOL plane (coincidentally enough, this plane resembles the Osprey helicopter) landing on naval carrier. Nice LS XC-142 transport landing in desert.
Whitewater Hearings August 1, 1994 - Part 1
(11:45:50) Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Mr. Chairman? Senator MACK. Mr. Chairman, I would like to make one last comment. The CHAIRMAN. Please. Go ahead. Senator MACK. Ms. Hanson had some very confidential information regarding the criminal referrals after she spoke to you, information which people involved in the case should not have access to. Mr. ROELLE. Again, Senator, without trying to be an expert on the law or ethics regarding this matter, I believe that it would have been better had no one known about these criminal referrals. Senator MACK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. What I want to try to do here is to in the order of the Members. Then, if others want to get in, I'd ask you to ask Members to Yield and they may or may not wish to do so. But I want to try to go back and forth to the Members. I know you're seeking recognition right now. If there's a parliamentary issue, I'll recognize it. But I'd like to go ahead to Senator Shelby. Senator MosELEY-BRAuN. If Senator Shelby would yield for a moment. I just wanted to clear up-Mr. Roelle said something that, without clarification, I think can be misleading. If the Senator would just yield for a single question of Mr. Roelle. Senator SHELBY. Wit out losing any time. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR CAROL MOSELEY-BRAUN Senator MOSELEY-BRAuN. Certainly. Mr. Roelle, when you said, when you discussed the referrals, you referred to the President and First Lady. You did not clarify whether you meant as witnesses in the referral or as targets of the referral. I think it's important for the record that you make clear in which regard your reference was made. Mr. ROELLE. I would prefer-I don't want to cross this line, Senator. I mentioned-I am willing to completely be forthcoming that the Clintons' names were mentioned. I think how they're mentioned would be getting into the details of the referrals. I will seek your guidance. I will be totally forthcoming, if somebody will just tell me where they want me to be on this issue. The CHAIRMAN. I'm not sure it's your job to answer that question. I think it's generally understood, from a host of information that's out in the public arena, that they were mentioned as witnesses, 23 which is not the other inference. So, I'm going to just leave that there for now. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. I have no further questions. The CHAIRMAN. I don't think Mr. Roelle ought to be the one asked to step across that line. I think your question was an appropriate one. Senator Shelby. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR RICHARD C. SHEL13Y Senator SHELBY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Ryan, I believe you testified in your opening statement, basically saying that Mr. Altman wanted Madison treated the same as any other case. If that was true, was there a committee set up to deal with Madison/Whitewater? Mr. RYAN. There was, yes, sir. Senator SHELBY. Is this ordinarily done in the RTC? Mr. RYAN. No, sir, it wasn't ordinarily done. It was set up because we were getting-the RTC was receiving a large number of informational requests from the Congress and from the press. Senator SHELBY. From everybody? Mr. RYAN. From everybody. We felt that we had to be consistent in the way we responded to those inquiries. Senator SHELBY. In other words, basically, you thought this was an extraordinary case. Mr. RYAN. It was an extraordinary case. Senator SHELBY. Possibly involving some people at the White House. Mr. RYAN, That's correct. Senator SHELBY. OK. How did this committee come to be formed? Did you put it together? Mr. RYAN. I put it together, yes, sir. Senator SHELBY. And who was on the committee? Mr. RYAN. Three members were on the committee. Mr. Collishaw from our legal division, Peter Knight, and Jim Dudine from our investigations unit. The reason I'm hesitating in trying to recall the answers to those questions is that this committee remained in use for a very short period of time. Senator SHELBY. How long did the committee last? A week? Ten days? Mr. RYAN. Probably 2 or 3 weeks. When our General Counsel, Ellen Kulka, arrived on January 17, 1994, she formed a working group that assumed much of what this committee Senator SHELBY, Superseded the committee all together or assumed some of the responsibility? Mr. RYAN. Assumed some of the responsibility and the rest was dealt with in our regular fashion. Senator SHELBY, And what was that, regular fashion? It's a very good question.
Fish Air Drop
Fish Air Drop 400,000 rainbow trout rain down into Lake Powell, Arizona, in the first known successful fish airdrop. It's a new way to stocking remote waters and 95% of the trout survive the fall." MSs laborers scooping fish from a tank with a net, placing them into a container, passing the container to other workers; the fish are emptied into a large holding tank aboard an airplane. Over the shoulder MS pilot manning controls (yoke) of airplane in cockpit. Aerial shot of a dam and pass bridge spanning across deep canyon. Aerial shot of upstream reservoir. Low angle shot airplane in flight, spewing water (trout) from back. LSs fish hitting water, and in doing so, make splashes similar in appear those of raindrops.
Football
"The winless Minnesota Vikings beat the undefeated Green Bay Packers, 10-7, on the strength of a field goal with only eight seconds left. The Vikings' first win after four losses breaks a Packers win-streak of 17 games." Card: FOOTBALL - Vikings 10 - Packers 7. Slightly from behind MS crowd wearing rain slickers, using umbrellas to protect cameras from rain. Panning LS rain-slicked field. High angle TLS Green Bay Packers quarterback Zeke Bratkowski passing to wide receiver Caroll Dale for touchdown. H/a TLS crowd in rain slickers standing, cheering. TLS Vikings quarterback Joe Kapp running to goal line. TLS Bill Brown running for TD. H/a TLS crowd sitting, wearing protective rain gear. Panning TLS Bratkowski passing, being intercepted. TLS scoreboard. LS Vikings kicker Fred Cox making field goal for the victory. "The End" over animation of Earth spinning in space.
Anti-War Demonstrators Storm Pentagon
"Violence at the Pentagon, more than 600 persons arrested, and the general feeling that everyone lost are the parts and sum of a two-day anti-Vietnam-War demonstration in the nation's capital." Washington DC Aerial shot protesters gathered outside the Lincoln Memorial. TLS crowd at Washington Mall, Washington Monument in BG. MS angry young white man being carted off by crowd on steps of Lincoln Memorial, young man yelling. MS anti-war protesters marching carrying banner that reads, "Support Our GIs. Bring (Them Home)." Aerial shots anti-war marchers crossing the Potomac River via bridge. TLS/MSs Military Police (MPs) attempting to contain the crowd outside Pentagon by forming protective line, hauling some unruly protesters inside. Panning TLS horde of armed (rifles affixed with bayonets) MPs descending from steps of Pentagon to reinforce others. TLS three men in white helmets taking away protester carrying American flag. MSs armed MPs forming protective line. MS anti-war protesters sitting in front of campfire at base of Pentagon steps, attempting to keep warm the day after. MSs Caucasian youth demonstrators at a sit-in, encircled by MPs. MCU young white man with beard & glasses, wearing suit with a carnation lapel. MS military police of a similar age to the protesters standing guard. Good dichotomy.
Whitewater Hearings August 1, 1994 - Part 1
(11:50:38) Senator SHELBY. Mr. Ryan, when did you first learn of the Feb ruary 2 1994, meeting between the White House and Mr. Altman? 24 Mr. RYAN. I learned about that meeting in the meetings the RTC staff held with Mr. Altman to help prepare him for the oversight hearings before this Committee. Senator SHELBY. What was your reaction to that meeting when you learned about it? Mr. RYAN. I was surprised that meeting , had occurred. Senator SHELBY. During your tenure of dealing with a regulation like this, have you ever known of any other disclosures like that? Mr. RYAN. No, sir. Senator SHELBY. Isn't it very important to the RTC to keep this kind of information very confidential within the RTC? Mr. RYAN. I think it is, yes, sir. It is a responsibility of- Senator SHELBY, And why is it important? Mr. RYAN. It is important because information concerning such matters could compromise the RTC's ability to bring a case, if that is warranted. Senator SHELBY. Is this especially true if people who might be targets of this investigation Mr. RYAN. Yes, sir. Senator SHELBY. -knew what was going on on the inside of RTC? Mr. RYAN. Yes, sir. Senator SHELBY. Was that why you were surprised that this information had been disseminated to the White House? Mr. RYAN. I'm not making a judgment as to- Senator SHELBY, Just tell me what you thought at the time. Mr. RYAN. I thought that it was a surprising revelation. Senator SHELBY. And highly unusual, wasn't it? Mr. RYAN. And highly unusual, yes, sir. Senator SHELBY. This was confidential information, was it not? Mr. RYAN. That's the problem, I think, Senator, the RTC does leak. I think someone said Senator SHELBY. Was it supposed to he confidential information? Mr. RYAN. It was supposed to be confidential, and the RTC has a responsibility to keep that information confidential as well. The RTC breached that responsibility. Senator SHELBY. Who breached it? Mr. RYAN. I don't know. Senator SHELBY. Have you done an internal investigation to see? Mr. RYAN. Not yet. Senator SHELBY. Were you aware, at any time, of a request made by Mr. Altman that the General Counsel of the RTC, Ms. Kulka, brief the President's private attorney on this? Mr. RYAN. Was I aware? Senator SHELBY. Yes. Mr. RYAN, If she did. Senator SHELBY. No. About the request. Mr. RYAN. I was aware of the request, yes, sir. Senator SHELBY. What was your reaction on learning about that request, that the General Counsel of RTC brief the President of the United States' private attorney-I believe it was Mr, Kendall. Mr. RYAN. Yes, that's correct. Senator SHELBY. What was your reaction? 25 Mr. RYAN. I was surprised at the request and discussed it with the General Counsel. Senator SHELBY. Would asking the General Counsel of the RTC to brief a private attorney of a possible subject in a civil suit, or any other suit, be inconsistent with the regulations that you went by in running the RTC? Mr. RYAN. I assumed all along that at some point in time, a meeting between our lawyer and Mr. Kendall would take place if an action was contemplated. I thought it was premature, as Ms. Kulka has indicated. Senator SHELBY. And highly unusual? Mr. RYAN. Highly unusual. Senator SHELBY. Mrs. Kulka, did Roger Altman or Jean Hanson ever ask you to brief David Kendall on the RTC's investigation of Madison/White water? Ms. KULKA. I received a call from Ms. Hanson where she told me that Roger Altman had requested that I call Mr. Kendall. Senator SHELBY. Do you recall the date of this, briefly? ? Can you refer to your notes, or would you furnish it for the record? Ms. KuLKA. I believe that it was around February 3, 1994. Senator SHELBY. OK Go ahead. Ms. KULKA. She asked me to advise him of the relationship between our potential asking for tolling agreements and the running of the statute of limitations on February 28, 1994, on the Madison matters. Senator SHELBY. Did you brief David Kendall, the President's attorney? Ms. KuLKA. No. Senator SHELBY. Why? Ms. KULKA. I told Ms. Hanson that I didn't think this was the appropriate time to do it because we had formed no conclusions about who might eventually be asked to execute tolling agreements or who might be defendants. Senator SHELBY. Absolutely, Ms. KULKA. And that I thought, at the appropriate time, we would certainly enter into those discussions with attorneys for any possible defendants. Senator SHELBY. What did Mrs. Hanson say to that? Ms. KuLKA. She said, fine, I'll tell Roger. Senator SHELBY. That was the end of it? Did you have a convesation with Mr. Altman, Mr. Roger Altman, regarding this? Ms. KuLKA. I don't believe I did. Senator SHELBY, Mr. Roelle, did you talk with Mr. Roger Altman about this same subject?
Las Vegas (day) - 1977
Reno - (day)