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ON PREVIEW CASSETTE #97800 Satellite communication
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 12, 1973
[00.55.13] Mr. BARKER. Mr. Chairman, just for the purpose of the record, I would just like to clarify the ruling of the committee, then, Mr. Stans is appearing here today under subpena, in order to protect, his right, of fair trial. has not volunteered to be here today. And now the committee had directed him under the penalty of citation of contempt. of Congress to proceed to testify. Is that correct. Mr. Chairman? ? Senator ERVIN. The committee has directed him to testify and the committee recognizes, as you as one learned in the law, that a refusal to testify under these circumstances without an invocation of the constitutional principle set out in the fifth amendment, would subject the witness to the possibility that the Senate might order the issuance of a citation for contempt of the Senate if' He refuses to testify. Mr. BARKER. Is it the position of this committee that if Mr. Stans did not proceed to testify they would seek a citation for contempt, against _Mr. Stans? Senator ERVIN. Well, that would be a matter that the committee Would have to Consider. Since that condition has not arisen, we have not, passed on that but I would say that it would be certainly within the prerogative of' the committee to recommend to the Senate in the event the witness refused to testify without invoking the fifth amendment, that he be cited by the Senate for contempt of the Senate. Mr. BARKER. Mr. Chairman, the point I am trying to make, I Would like at this point, for the record, our letter to you dated June 4, concerning Mr. Stans' appearance to be made part of' the record at this- time. Senator ERVIN. That will be done. Mr. BARKER. And, Mr. Chairman, what I AM trying to make a Matter of record, that Mr. Stans is not doing anything voluntarily which would waive his right to test in the proceeding in New York whether He can get a fair trial and whether the indictment should be on the grounds it is impossible For him to get a fair trial. And I want to be clear that you are ordering him to testify, and that he is not proceeding under circumstances which would waive that right. Senator ERVIN. Well, in the absence of any objection to the contrary from any member of the committee, I would state as chairman of the committee, that you have made it perfectly clear. [Laughter.] Please refrain from laughing. You made it perfectly clear and Mr. Stans has made perfectly clear to the committee that he is not voluntarily appearing to testify and that any testimony he may give to the committee is given to the committee merely because the committee orders him to give such testimony. Mr. BARKER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to take just a moment to check with Mr. Stans. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Stans will proceed under those circumstances. Senator ERVIN. I think there may be some other member of the committee who may want to make some remarks at this time before we proceed further. Senator Baker. Senator BAKER. Mr. Chairman, I thank you. for the opportunity to make one brief remark which has nothing to do really, with the legal maneuvering which has gone on here. I fully understand the importance of these exchanges. I simply wanted to say on, I believe, on behalf of the committee, certainly on behalf of this Senator, that the committee is not insensitive to the rather delicate position in which Mr. Stans finds himself. We are. not insensitive to the whipsaw between the judicial system and the legislative system which would appear on the surface. But I think two or three observations might be appropriate to set the stage and to create the right, atmosphere for our going forward at this time. We are not ordering Mr. Stans to testify simply to serve the purposes of this committee's desire to proceed. We are, as a coordinate branch of the Government, proceeding with the mandate given us by the Senate. The case, the Delaney case to which counsel referred if my memory serves me, was a case that tested this theory and went out on the question of whether or not the court under these circumstances should delay and continue criminal prosecutions until after the legislative proceedings had been concluded. I do not suggest that the U.S. district court for any district in the State of New York, or that in which this case is pending, should grant a continuance. I rather say, nor do I suggest that you should ask for a continuance. I rather say that there are remedies other than disposing of this witness without his testimony and without suspending the proceedings of this committee in view of the coordinate branch of conflict which is presented. [01.00.27]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 12, 1973
[01.00.27] [Senator BAKER continues to discuss the committee's decision to force Maurice STANS to testify] On the question of fair trial, if for no other reason than human sensibilities, I am concerned for a fair trial for any defendant, especially any defendant charged with any violation of the law in conjunction with the so-called Watergate situation or Presidential campaign activities of 1972. I am very concerned for a fair trial for the Government and for the defendant. But I suggest, for whatever it is worth, that this committee is in a position to develop the circumstances and involvements, to do it fairly and openly, to do it publicly, to do it as a forum creating an opportunity for the witness to state-his side of the case so the potential Jurors do not have just rumor, innuendo, inferences, and conclusions on which to base judgment. I suggest there is a far greater likelihood, in my view, that a fair jury, an impartial jury, and a, fair trial might be engaged in after this hearing and after everybody has had the opportunity to testify than would have been the case a few months ago without, a public exposition of all the facts and circumstances attendant on Watergate and the involvements described being undertaken by this committee. No one can be certain of this result; but, I certainly hope for that result because I hope that these committee hearings do not, prejudice the right to a fair trial but, in fact enhance the right to a fair trial. I Pledge before you again that I will not, inquire into any matter that I or you suggest in good faith might be involved in the trial of Vesco case. I urge you to caution your client in that, respect, and I Pledge on my part, that no refusal to answer On that legitimate basis will be viewed by the committee Or this Member of the, committee, as a failure of cooperation. I believe, in conclusion, that this legislative committee, this committee of the Senate, a coordinate branch of the, Government, can proceed with its mandate as required by the resolution which created it, without jeopardizing the fairness of trial for either the Government or the defendant, It is my fervent hope, that we conduct ourselves in that way. Thank you. Senator ERVIN-. Any further statements? I would just like to add that I agree with Senator Baker's observation that, the chances--there has been so much publicity in the press that the chances for anybody getting a fair trial of anybody involved would rise with the completion of this hearing rather than postponement of this, hearing and, as I construe the U.S. Supreme Court, decision in the Hutchinson case, the committee in acting within the constitutional limits. And I also would like to say this, Mr. Barker, as one who admires legal craftsmanship, I want to commend the excellence and the eloquent manner in you have undertaken to protect what you conceive to be the rights of the witness. Mr. BARKER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman Senator ERVIN. We might let the other attorneys, if they are there, to identify themselves the record, and you might do the same, Mr. Barker. Mr. BARKER. Mr. Chairman, I am Robert W. Barker. I am accompanied by Walter J. Bonner and Leon T. Knauer. Senator ERVIN. Mr. Stans, would you stand up? Mr. STANS. Mr. Chairman, I would like to proceed with an opening statement which will take me approximately 20 minutes, perhaps a minute or two over. Senator ERVIN. I was thinking maybe I would administer the, oath and then recess and perhaps it -would be better to make your opening statement after the recess. [01.04.15--TAPE OUT]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 12, 1973
[00.02.00--Sen. BAKER explaining the committee's decision to force Maurice STANS to testify] I hope that these committee hearings do not, prejudice the right to a fair trial but, in fact enhance the right to a fair trial. I Pledge before you again that I will not, inquire into any matter that I or you suggest in good faith might be involved in the trial of Vesco case. I urge you to caution your client in that, respect, and I Pledge on my part, that no refusal to answer On that legitimate basis will be viewed by the committee Or this Member of the, committee, as a failure of cooperation. I believe, in conclusion, that this legislative committee, this committee of the Senate, a coordinate branch of the, Government, can proceed with its mandate as required by the resolution which created it, without jeopardizing the fairness of trial for either the Government or the defendant, It is my fervent hope, that we conduct ourselves in that way. Thank yon. Senator ERVIN-. Any further statements? I would just like to add that I agree with Senator Baker's observation that, the chances--there has been so much publicity in the press that the chances for anybody getting a fair trial of anybody involved would rise with the completion of this hearing rather than postponement of this, hearing and, as I construe the U.S. Supreme Court, decision in the Hutchinson case, the committee in acting within the constitutional limits. And I also would like to say this, Mr. Barker, as one who admires legal craftsmanship, I want to commend the excellence and the eloquent manner in you have undertaken to protect what you conceive to be the rights of the witness. Mr. BARKER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman Senator ERVIN. We might let the other attorneys, if they are there, to identify themselves the record, and you might do the same, Mr. Barker. Mr. BARKER. Mr. Chairman, I am Robert W. Barker. I am accompanied by Walter J. Bonner and Leon T. Knauer. Senator ERVIN. Mr. Stans, would you stand up? Mr. STANS. Mr. Chairman, I would like to proceed with an opening statement which will take me approximately 20 minutes, perhaps a minute or two over. Senator ERVIN. I was thinking maybe I would administer the, oath and then recess and perhaps it -would be better to make your opening statement after the recess. Mr. STANS. It Is quite agreeable either way Mr. Chairman. Senator ERVIN. Will you Stand and raise your right, hand? Do you swear that the evidence that you shall give to the Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities shall be, the truth, the, whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God? TESTIMONY OF MAURICE H. STANS, ACCOMPANIED BY ROBERT W. BARKER. ATTORNEY Mr. STANS. I Do. Senator ERVIN. We normally recess at noon until 2 o'clock. At that time we, give you an opportunity to read your entire statement and I would suggest that you be allowed to read your entire statement without interruption by questions. Mr. STANS, Thank you. Senator ERVIN. The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock, [00.05.00--MacNEILL in studio] MacNEILL remarks that after all of the effort to get STANS to testify, it's ironic that as soon as he was sworn in, the committee took a lunch break. Solicits viewer response to the coverage [PBS network ID--title screen 'SENATE HEARINGS ON CAMPAIGN ACTIVITIES"] [00.08.00--MacNEILL in studio] MacNEILL states that the first part of STANS' testimony will center on his role with the re-election committee, one he said was separate from the strategy makers of the campaign, and explain how a $25,000 check from a campaign contributor came to be deposited in the bank account of convicted Watergate burglar Bernard BARKER.] n [00.08.25--committee room]