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August 1, 1994 - Part 7
(20:05:53) Senator MURRAY. Mr. Chairman, we have not had an opportunity. The CHAIRMAN. I beg your pardon. Let me stand corrected. Let me give the whole answer here. On the Republican side, some of the time has been yielded to one Member, several times over in the rotation, as opposed to going down and getting every Senator. Not 145 every Senator on this side has been called upon, although I've tried to call on each one that I've understood to be wanting to be called upon. In fact, it would help me, now, to know what Senators, on both sides, would like to be called upon and, then, I will do so in the order in which we're proceeding. Senator Bryan, Senator Murray, and Senator Moseley-Braun wish to be called upon. At this point, Senator Boxer Senator BOXER. I already had my round, but I'll wait The CHAIRMAN. Senator Boxer has had one round-the voting period Senator BoxER. But I'll wait for the end, because I have More questions. The CHAIRMAN. On this side, Senator Gramm, Senator Bennett, Senator Roth, Senator Domenici, Senator Hatch, and Senator D'Amato wish to be called upon. That's why we have ordered in the pizzas tonight, Senator D'Amato's birthday day is today. Senator SHELBY Mr. Chairman when are they coming? The CHAIRMAN. Not soon enough. In any event, who's next in the order now rotating across to this Senator D'AMATO. I believe Senator Domenici is next. I yield to Senator Domenici. The CHAMMAN. Senator Domenici will go next on this side. Senator DOMENICI. How many times have you had an opportunity to correct the record when a witness that you represent, as le I counsel, has, in your opinion, failed to tell the whole truth? Ms. HANsON. To my recollection, this is the first time that I have been in a position, like this one, where there was a transcript that was going to be provided for me to review. I have reviewed other testimony, but I bad not been in this particular position before. Senator DOMENICI. Are you of the impression, the way we do business in the U.S. Senate is that, a witness can come before the Committee, tell half truths or one-quarter of the truth and, then, that gives him the right to take as long as he'd like to look through the transcript and correct it? Even if it's something as specific as, "Did you have only one meeting?" and the answer is, "Yes," but it turns out that there are at least three and maybe more? Is it your understanding that's the way the Senate does business.? at you have that right and Mr. Altman has that right? Ms. HANsON. It's my understanding--certainly, it's my understanding that the requirement is to testify truthfully. It's also my understanding that it is necessary, and what a careful lawyer does, to review the transcript and to correct it, if necessary, and supplement it. Sir, that was what I intended to do here. That was all I intended to do. Senator DOMENICI. I understand. Mr. Chairman, I might just state my own observation. The CHAIRMAN. Please. Senator DOMENICI. I really don't understand that to be the premise upon which we operate in terms of our records that witnesses can come and tell us a quarter of what's truthful or a half of what's truthful and then go see their legal counsel and say, "Let me correct it," and then correct it once, correct it twice, correct it ,three times. I think it's very unordinary that this matter was ban 146 dled like this and, frankly, I just call upon Senators who have here to recollect whether they think this is the way we do business. I mean, the fact of the matter-is, Mr. Altman did not tell this mittee the truth. Or, let's put it another way, the whole truth. Then you sought as you claim, in due course, to fix that record as I understand it. Ms. HANSON. Sir, that's not what I-what I've said. I think Altman and-and Mr. Altman will appear before this Coln, and you can ask Mr. Altman questions about his testimony, I have testified-is that, I intended to review all the questions answers to make sure that they were fully and completely swered, and I did not have an opportunity to do that. You're this was an unusual process, because a Grand Jury subpoena delivered to me on March 4, 1994, which terminated my ability participate in this process.
August 1, 1994 - Part 7
(20:15:19) Senator DODD. I don't think Mr. McLarty was there. It was in his office, you testified, but he was not present. Is that correct? Ms. HANSON. That's correct. Senator DOMENICI. Nobody else from' the White House has called ou about the subject matter of that meeting? Has anybody else been in contact with you? Ms. HANSON. As I testified, Neal Eggleston called me just before the hearing on the proposed answer to a question regarding the meeting, but other than that, no, sir. Senator DOMENICI. Just one last time, as you sat behind the table there, while Mr. Altman was testifying-and Secretary Bentsen was there, I recall it rather vividly-are you actually telling us today, that you did not clearly understand, right then and there, that he was not telling us all of the facts? Ms. HANSON. As I stated, sir, I realized that be bad not mentioned recusal. I did not know why he had done that. Senator DOMENICI. And you didn't choose to do anything about that until later on? Ms. HANsON. That's correct. I didn't think there was anything I could do about it, at that point, given the way he bad testified. Senator DOMENICI. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAiRmAN, I think, in fairness to the witness, on this---and she can speak for herself, I'm not trying to speak for her-but she did say earlier, and it was confirmed in your deposition, that you felt, beyond a certain point, he had made such a declarative and definitive answer, if you will, that the moment bad passed where You thought you could intervene and, in a sense, broaden out the answer. Is that correct? 148 Ms. HANsON. That's coThe CHAIRMAN. I'm going to yield to Senator Bryan. Before I yield I just want to ask you if you think nk you've got the staying power tonight, to finish up this evening. I know this is a difficult exercise for you, and there are a lot of us and only one of you. I think it would be well if we could finish tonight, as opposed to carry 0 until tomorrow- MS. HANSON. That's fine. The CHAIRMAN. -but I don't want to do that if that--if you don't feel you want to stick it out here tonight. I don't know what your own energy level is in terms of responding. I'd like a little guidance from you. I'd like to finish, but I don't want to do that if it's beyond what you think your strength is here tonight Ms. HANsON. I'm prepared to continue, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Very good. Thank you. Senator Bryan. Senator BRYAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. There are a number of things I find to be quite troubling here. I'm very disturbed at the way in which Mr. Altman was handled, both your conduct, with respect to it, and his. Tomorrow, well have a chance to ask him some questions. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Bryan, I'm having a hard time hearing you. I'm wondering if you could get closer to that mike? Maybe we could turn it up a bit. Senator BRYAN. Mr. Chairman, is this a little better? The CHAIRMAN. Yes, it is. Thank you. Senator BRYAN. What I just said is that, I find a number of things troublesome and particularly disturbing to me in the way in which the Altman testimony was handled, both Mr. Altman's conduct and your conduct. I don't find your explanation persuasive, but I don't want to dwell on that. I think a number of others have made that point as well. I'm also bothered with the contacts with the Administration. It may very well be, as you suggest, that an ethical standard was not breached, but there is an appearance of impropriety and I don't believe there was the sensitivity that there ought to , have been with respect to that issue. What I want to talk to you a little bit about, now, and get the benefit of your thinking, is an area that I've explored with several other witnesses and that is the relationship of the RTC to the Treasury. Those of us who were here in 1989, when we worked on the FIRREA legislation, certainly had the impression, I think it's fair to say, that we were creating an independent relationship between the RTC and the Treasury. Perhaps, as you've. indicated on page 2 of your testimony today, it was not as independent as, say, the SEC, because there was no fixed term. I think that is correct, but yet, clearly, there was an independent relationship contemplated. You, obviously, take a different point of view. Let me just say that, in this morning's testimony, a number of the witnesses who were questioned were concerned about the absence of that independent relationship they thought was important. Mr. Roelle commented, during the course of his testimony, that the RTC did not operate independently of the Treasury, "Everything we do is cleared by the Treasury." " Mr. Katsanos was very concerned about the relationship. He felt that, and inherently, and I'm 149 paraphrasing, the two hats that Mr. Altman wore made it a very difficult relationship, and even Mr. Ryan commented that he felt the lines of authority were blurred. The line of questioning that I'd like to pursue with you is what the nature of the RTC is. Is it simply a bureau, as one witness commented in disagreeing with that perception, is it just a bureau within the Department of Treasury, or is it just an entity within the Department? Give me the benefit of your thinking, of how you understand and how you perceive this relationship.
Shades Of Aviation Past
Look what the Germans have got airborne once again - there hasn't been a rigid airship aloft since the tragedy of the Hindenburg until now. It's a 20-foot model built by a Bavarian watchmaker and it would do Count Zeppelin proud as it flies over the roofs of the fascinated townsfolk. You see the second stories of houses and floating above them is a zeppelin, looking very slick. CU - A little blond haired boy looking up at the airship. The zeppelin is making a nice and easy landing. Teenagers on their bikes watching the landing of the airship. Model of a zeppelin and the builder pulling it along holding it on a string. The two builders of the model airship. MS - Once again they are letting the 20 foot model up in the air again. "Altvater". MS - The builder of the Altvater is putting it through different maneuvers.
Princeton 51 to Penn State 0
The Princeton Tiger goes for 14 straight victories and has no trouble with Pennsylvania as they run roughshod. It seems that touchdowns get so monotonous that they let Charlie Goggled kick a field goal or two (or three, as it turns out). Throngs of fans fill up the stadium. High Angle Shot - Princeton has the football and takes it just outside the goal line. High Angle Shot - Princeton is handed off the ball and takes it over the goal line and Princeton is on the scoreboard. MS - Princeton fires a shot deep into the end zone, it is caught and Princeton scores again. High Angle Shot - Googled kicks the football and it is good for a point. High Angle Shot - Scoreboard Princeton 17 - Penn State 0. High Angle Shot - Princeton throws short and runs it in for another touchdown. High Angle Shot - Princeton throws another pass, it is caught and is ran in for a touchdown. MS - Princeton runs the ball for 16 yards. MS - Princeton gets the ball again and pulls off a razzle dazzle right down the middle for a touchdown. High Angle Back Shot - Fans sitting and cheering in the bleachers. High Angle Shot - Googled kick the ball for a 43 yard field goal. MS Princeton takes the ball through the middle for 11 yards. MS The final touchdown. Final score 51 to zip, Princeton gets its 14th straight win.
Michigan State Tops In Big 10
The Spartans, undefeated, meet Purdue, one tie. In a game that may prove the Big Ten title. Purdue has command during the first three quarters, but Michigan State lets loose in the final fifteen minutes to score two touchdowns for a 14 to 10 victory. They can smell those Rose Bowl roses. Purdue University football stadium, marching band is spelling out P-U-R-D-U-E and throngs of football fans in the background sitting in the football stands. CUS - 16 mm camera pointed down at the football fans. LS - Michigan State's marching band is on the field. High Angle Shot - Purdue has the football and makes it down the field gaining 21 yards. High Angle Shot - The Michigan line stiffens and Purdue has to settle for a field goal. MS - Purdue runs the ball in for a touchdown. MS - Scoreboard - Purdue 10 / Visitors 0. In the fourth quarter Michigan State breaks loose and the ball is handed off and he runs it 16 yards. High Angle shot, Purdue's defenses are crumbling and Spartan bulls over from the one and he scores the first Spartan touchdown. MS - Scoreboard Michigan 10 / Purdue 8. MS - Purdue is forced to punt the football, and the Spartans run the ball to the 39 yard line fighting for every yards he gains. High Angle Shot - Michigan has the ball goes around the side and runs in a 8 yard touchdown. Michigan State 14 / Purdue 10.
UN Children's Fund Wins 1965 Nobel Peace Prize Award
The United Nations Children's Fund was founded after World War II to rescue the children of war torn nations. That work completed, it turned its efforts in 1953 to aiding the youngsters of 118 nations in all parts of the globe. Hunger and disease recognize no national barriers and UNICEF has dispatched food and medicine to Asia and Africa, to Latin America and to Europe. It has been this dedicated work that has brought the Children's Fund the 1965 Nobel Prize. Here is a camera report on its work - and its aims. A filmed tribute to a cause all men embrace.
The National Horse Show: Glittering Event Opens NY Season
When the National Horse Show opens in New York on the heels of the curtain going up on a new Metropolitan Opera season, you can be sure that New York's social life is back in full swing. The US Equestrian team jumps into a big lead on opening night as diamonds and furs take a back seat to the brilliance of the performance in the ring. CUS - Marquee all lit up; National Horse Show. Argentina, Canada, Ireland, Mexico & United States. CU - High Society arriving with their minks, and tuxedos High Angle Shot - Audience sitting in the chairs of the stadium applauding. CUS - Audience. High Angle Shot - Brass band playing music in the middle of the ring where the horses will perform. MS - Audience standing and applauding after hearing National Anthems. High Angle Shot - A member of the US Equestrian Team riding his steed through the paces. High Angle Shot - An American gal is riding her steed, Fire One. CUS - Audience applauding in approval. MS - Stinecroust and his winning steed and team mates center ring.
Vietnam Report: Congressmen Tour Refugee Camps
Film has some damage It's the season for Congressional junkets and South Vietnam refugee camps are visited by a legislative party that includes Senator Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts. A center at Hoakhanh near Danang military base is sheltering civilians driven from their homes as the Vietcong were backed deeper into the jungle. A Wide Angle Shot of the camp with refugees and soldiers walking about. The faces of some of the children in the camp, holding up little American flags. A young Senator Edward Kennedy. Refugees standing very orderly watching Senator Kennedy. Panning Shot - American aid neatly stacked, food, medicine etc. Rear shot - Senator Kennedy's motorcade driving to another camp near Danang military base. MS - Children standing on a porches of large huts that are raised by post. CUS - Little boy ages from 5 to 13 years old. Side profile of Senator Edward Kennedy looking over some papers. A Vietnamese mother holding a child in her arms standing in a door way. Senator Kennedy walking with an army entourage.
Beatles Play The Palace
The Queen's Palace has lived through many historic events - but few like this one. A screaming, weeping, throng storms the gates of Buckingham as the Beatles are invested with the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. It's reward for their work in bringing foreign exchange to Britain, yea, yea. yea... A bobby directing traffic, and throngs of the very young surrounding the walls and gates of the Queen's Palace. MS - Young girls dancing around, teenage boys with long hair and their wearing suit jackets. The young Beatles, Ringo, John, Paul and George. CUS - Young George Harrison. Camera panning - Paul McCarthy, John Lennon and at last Ringo Star. MS - A very long Rolls Royce driving away from the Queen's Palace. MS - Bobbies with their arms interlocked holding back the crowd., girls jumping up and down.
August 1, 1994 - Part 7
(20:20:56) Ms. HANSON. I understand, as I testified, that the RTC is a corporation, that it is overseen by an oversight board of which the Secretary of the Treasury is the Chairman, and that the statute that ou referred to established authority of the RTC and the oversight board and gave the RTC the authority to deal with case-specific and day-to-day operations, among other things, separate an independent from the oversight board. That is, the oversight board is not to interfere with case-specific matters or day-to-day operations. Typically, had it not been for the fact that Mr. Altman had-was also appointed as the Interim CEO under the Vacancy Act, there would have been involvement of staff of the Treasury Department. That has, historically, been the case, giving staff support to the Secretary in his capacity as Chairman of the oversight board, but there would have been much less involvement than there ere had been this last year. The difficulty, sir, and this was a difficult time-I already had a full-time job. I didn't need more work to do. On the other hand, Mr. Altman also had-Mr. Altman had two full-time jobs and he called upon a certain number of people in the Treasury to assist him in carrying out his functions simply because it was physically impossible for him to do it all. As I stated, he had statutory authority, as the Interim CEO, to call upon other Executive Branch personnel, and he also had statutory authority, as the Deputy Secretary, to grant that assistance. It was a difficult situation, I will tell you, sir. Senator BRYAN. I acknowledge that. I think Mr. Altman had a very difficult situation. Ms. HANSON. In fact, one of the happiest days of my life was when Ellen Kulka, who I hold in extremely high regard, joined the RTC as the General Counsel. I would say, if I understood Mr. Roelle correctly as he testified this morning, the case-specific issues were handled at the RTC, the Treasury people were involved in policy issues, and the oversight board does have statutory authority to be involved in policy matters. There was a real attempt made, at the Treasury, to make sure that Treasury staff were only involved to the point of either assisting Mr. Altman in carrying out his. decisions, or advising him, in his capacity as Interim CEO, on Policy issues, and to not interfere with the day-to-day issues or the case-specific matters at the RTC. ., Senator BRYAN. My view was that Mr. Altman, who had a difficult situation wearing two hats, really, had two hemispheres of authority and responsibility. One, was as Deputy Secretary and, as You indicate, that, in and of itself, would be a full-time job and, during some interim period of time, he was also the Acting Head of the RTC. 150 What I find interesting is that, there does not seem to be, least in your thought process, any distinction, am I being asked in my capacity as General Counsel to the Treasury, which is clearly your responsibility, or is Mr. Altman framing a question that more appropriately is with respect to his responsibility as the RTC Head. Did you ever, for example, in conversing with Mr. Altman--not specifically in the context of this case-but did you ever say to him "Mr. Altman, really, that is a RTC responsibility. I think it would be more appropriate if you talked with Ms. Kulka, because she your General Counsel" Ms. HANSON. Absolutely. Senator BRYAN. So you did make that statement?